5 ms·

The one thing I still wonder about Ted is actually how many more actually good and thought provoking "manifestos" like his are out there, only for nobody to pus

by mihaic 3y ago

The one thing I still wonder about Ted is actually how many more actually good and thought provoking "manifestos" like his are out there, only for nobody to push them to in the public's eye. After all, almost all smart people that identify uncomfortable truths won't go to extremes to convince strangers of actually giving their non-mainstream ideas a chance.

drones 3y ago
There are way more Ted K's running around today - it's just that you don't need to kill people to get heard anymore. Nowadays the spectacle of ruining your own life is enough to get noticed. Anyone with an internet connection today has access to world stage provided they are interesting enough. Back then you'd need to catch the eye of a producer for a mainstream news broadcast to get any coverage. Now you can just fire up a camera and there's a 50% chance you'll end up on a podcast circuit and end up talking to Joe Rogan.
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  You seem to suggest that Kaczynski murdered as a kind of marketing strategy for his ideas. I highly doubt that.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    From the manifesto itself: "In order to attract attention to our ideas, we've had to kill people." Quoting from memory - may not be word for word. So, if you can believe him, then yes, he murdered as a marketing strategy.
    - JKCalhoun 3y ago
      That's interesting. I'm skeptical enough though (having read books about the Zodiac Killer, for example) that I see it just as likely to have been an unexpected opportunity that Kaczynski exploited. I guess I'm not surprised that a murderer, enjoying their new-found public lectern, might engage in rationalization of their murders.
    - timeon 3y ago
      That is also marketing. He was hiding his personal grievances behind these ideas.
  - adamrezich 3y ago
    it's 2023 and everyone has an Internet-connected smartphone in their pocket at all times—in 1995 this was not the case.
    - JKCalhoun 3y ago
      And yet people in this internet age still go on shooting sprees and leave behind "manifestos". My take away is that there are and always have been sick people. Citing lack of a megaphone shouldn't even be a sliver of rationale for a murderer's behavior.
  - drones 3y ago
    Terrorism isn't marketing? Marketing is all about advertising your ideas and changing people's ideas. 9/11 wasn't marketing for Al-Quaeda? Even if he was purely driven out of self-interest and ego, the result of his actions is that today we are discussing his ideas when we should be working.
    - JKCalhoun 3y ago
      I think it comes down to order of operations and intent. If we knew that he first had a manifesto to present, then decided to murder strangers to draw attention to it then I grant you it was terrorism as marketing. I'm just suspicious whether this was the case.
  - brvsft 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unabomber_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unabomber_Manifesto > Between 1978 and 1995, Ted Kaczynski engaged in a mail bomb campaign[4] against people involved with modern technology.[5] His initial targets were universities and airlines, which the FBI shortened as UNABOM. In June 1995, Kaczynski offered to end his campaign if one of several publications (the Washington Post, New York Times, or Penthouse) would publish his critique of technology, titled Industrial Society and Its Future, which became widely known as the "Unabomber Manifesto".[6] In a sense, he used the murders as a marketing strategy, but honestly it was more of a threat to force his manifesto to be published.
- paulpauper 3y ago
  the odds are way worse than that. think how many emails his producer gets from people wanting to be on his show
JKCalhoun 3y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that "manifestos" are inherently elitist. I'm only aware of manifestos coming from people who speak with an air of self-importance. Kaczynski seems no different.
- opportune 3y ago
  The Declaration of Independence was a manifesto Had the American revolution not succeeded it would be relegated to being classified as a typical rebel manifesto that people basically do not care about
- sph 3y ago
  That's tautological. You write a manifesto if you think you have something worthwhile to share with the world. Same with writing books, asking people to subscribe to your blog newsletter, shouting on a street corner or asking people to vote for you. That said, who says having some self-importance is inherently bad? Trying to be humble is a cultural and religious virtue, not an absolute truth.
- arp242 3y ago
  It's just a name; might as well call it a "book", "publication", "article", "website", or "blog post". It's also a name given by the FBI and the media, not Kaczynski himself.
Fricken 3y ago
The notion that industrialization and modernity in general bring about feelings of profound alienation has a rich lineage of philosophy and storytelling going back to the dawn of the modern era. Nietchze, Carl Jung, Marshall McLuhan, William S Burroughs, Franz Kafka, Fritz Lang, PK Dick, Stanley Kubrick, Jared Diamond, Pink Floyd... this list could go on for a while.
kandel 3y ago
If you like manifestos the futurist manifesto is pretty cool.

by mihaic 3y ago

drones 3y ago

There are way more Ted K's running around today - it's just that you don't need to kill people to get heard anymore. Nowadays the spectacle of ruining your own life is enough to get noticed. Anyone with an internet connection today has access to world stage provided they are interesting enough. Back then you'd need to catch the eye of a producer for a mainstream news broadcast to get any coverage. Now you can just fire up a camera and there's a 50% chance you'll end up on a podcast circuit and end up talking to Joe Rogan.

JKCalhoun 3y ago
You seem to suggest that Kaczynski murdered as a kind of marketing strategy for his ideas. I highly doubt that.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  From the manifesto itself: "In order to attract attention to our ideas, we've had to kill people." Quoting from memory - may not be word for word. So, if you can believe him, then yes, he murdered as a marketing strategy.
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    That's interesting. I'm skeptical enough though (having read books about the Zodiac Killer, for example) that I see it just as likely to have been an unexpected opportunity that Kaczynski exploited. I guess I'm not surprised that a murderer, enjoying their new-found public lectern, might engage in rationalization of their murders.
  - timeon 3y ago
    That is also marketing. He was hiding his personal grievances behind these ideas.
- adamrezich 3y ago
  it's 2023 and everyone has an Internet-connected smartphone in their pocket at all times—in 1995 this was not the case.
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    And yet people in this internet age still go on shooting sprees and leave behind "manifestos". My take away is that there are and always have been sick people. Citing lack of a megaphone shouldn't even be a sliver of rationale for a murderer's behavior.
- drones 3y ago
  Terrorism isn't marketing? Marketing is all about advertising your ideas and changing people's ideas. 9/11 wasn't marketing for Al-Quaeda? Even if he was purely driven out of self-interest and ego, the result of his actions is that today we are discussing his ideas when we should be working.
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    I think it comes down to order of operations and intent. If we knew that he first had a manifesto to present, then decided to murder strangers to draw attention to it then I grant you it was terrorism as marketing. I'm just suspicious whether this was the case.
- brvsft 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unabomber_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unabomber_Manifesto > Between 1978 and 1995, Ted Kaczynski engaged in a mail bomb campaign[4] against people involved with modern technology.[5] His initial targets were universities and airlines, which the FBI shortened as UNABOM. In June 1995, Kaczynski offered to end his campaign if one of several publications (the Washington Post, New York Times, or Penthouse) would publish his critique of technology, titled Industrial Society and Its Future, which became widely known as the "Unabomber Manifesto".[6] In a sense, he used the murders as a marketing strategy, but honestly it was more of a threat to force his manifesto to be published.
paulpauper 3y ago
the odds are way worse than that. think how many emails his producer gets from people wanting to be on his show

JKCalhoun 3y ago

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that "manifestos" are inherently elitist. I'm only aware of manifestos coming from people who speak with an air of self-importance. Kaczynski seems no different.

opportune 3y ago
The Declaration of Independence was a manifesto Had the American revolution not succeeded it would be relegated to being classified as a typical rebel manifesto that people basically do not care about
sph 3y ago
That's tautological. You write a manifesto if you think you have something worthwhile to share with the world. Same with writing books, asking people to subscribe to your blog newsletter, shouting on a street corner or asking people to vote for you. That said, who says having some self-importance is inherently bad? Trying to be humble is a cultural and religious virtue, not an absolute truth.
arp242 3y ago
It's just a name; might as well call it a "book", "publication", "article", "website", or "blog post". It's also a name given by the FBI and the media, not Kaczynski himself.

Fricken 3y ago

The notion that industrialization and modernity in general bring about feelings of profound alienation has a rich lineage of philosophy and storytelling going back to the dawn of the modern era. Nietchze, Carl Jung, Marshall McLuhan, William S Burroughs, Franz Kafka, Fritz Lang, PK Dick, Stanley Kubrick, Jared Diamond, Pink Floyd... this list could go on for a while.

kandel 3y ago

If you like manifestos the futurist manifesto is pretty cool.