9 ms·

Students (in some parts of the society), sometimes up to the age of 25, are put on rails and it is always obvious what needs to be done next. Once in the "wild

Students (in some parts of the society), sometimes up to the age of 25, are put on rails and it is always obvious what needs to be done next. Once in the "wild", most individuals are forced to make their own path. On top of that, minor tasks and chores pile up, leading to decision fatigue. Very few things are fulfilling. It's hard I guess. And that seems to be the topic in Oliver Burkeman's book 4000 weeks.

balaji1 3y ago
I noticed the phrase "accelerating world" on https://www.oliverburkeman.com/books https://www.oliverburkeman.com/books. Nice wording. A lot of people feel it.
- Tomte 3y ago
  See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmut_Rosa https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmut_Rosa A German sociologist who coined the Akzelerationszirkel (circle of acceleration).
- miahwilde 3y ago
  Here's a thought: what if it's less that the rate of change is increasing and more that our mental models of the world tend to solidify as we age such that the perceived rate of change of the world increases. This is more an observation of the "the world was a lot simpler when I was young" mentality rather than a comment on the long range compounding effects of technology though they might be related.
  - wizzwizz4 3y ago
    It might also be increased awareness of changes. There are many things in my personal history that I viewed as normal, constant things, but that were actually changing significantly all the while I was learning about their natures.
  - balaji1 3y ago
    Your phrasing is also super interesting. > mental models of the world tend to solidify as we age Mental models solidifying over time might be true. But "acceleration" is a shared experience for entire generations (of peers). It seems a broad enough experience that it is more than perceived. Like a grandma is content to read books instead of being on top of HN, etc. Solidified mental models also gives perspective on life and its direction. And people tend to converge on few similar timeless mental models on a meta level. > long range compounding effects of technology It's correct, most modern systems are enabled by better tech at its root. But the collective will of humanity (at least right now) is to leverage tech to push it further. Instead of a sinusoid where we take time to fix unintended side-effects we created (like pollution, resource depletion, re-assess education, etc).
  - jamiek88 3y ago
    You deffo have something there, we do ossify if we aren’t careful or we aren’t naturally childlike (Feynman type curiosity), but I think it’s also true that acceleration is happening. I mean that’s pretty objective. In my own lifetime (only in my 40’s!) social norms and expectations have rapidly changed as has the constant sense of urgency injected into the zeitgeist by profit making 24hr news and social media. Propaganda was something you read about in history books (naively) not something you were bombarded with constantly by both anti and pro political positions. When teens went home they had relief from social pressure now they are never, ever, alone with their thoughts. Fall asleep clutching their iPhones wake up to 100 missed messages. Ever seen a normally popular teens phone light up? I got a sense of panic and said ‘what’s wrong? What’s happened?’ And they just looked at me weird. What? This is normal? My phone only blows up like that when there is a disaster!
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I have a minimum of notifications turned on. I'll sometimes be in a work group chat for a customer meeting or something. But otherwise push notification traffic is pretty low. And sometimes I'm polling a lot but I can turn that off.
      - balaji1 3y ago
        wish all the teens (and adults, at least the adults) were so intentional and in control. Most most most people are really not in control over their phone use; no one can deny that.
      - jamiek88 3y ago
        Me too but my mental well being doesn’t require constant contact and social communication. In fact it depends on the opposite.
  - 13of40 3y ago
    It's kind of interesting that emotionally I agree with that feeling, but if you just look at the fact that I'm reading what you wrote in real time from the most remote island chain in the world, and with a couple of finger swipes I could switch apps and buy a buggy whip with one click...I mean just imagine what you would have to do to buy a buggy whip in 1985.
    - wholinator2 3y ago
      What the hell is a buggy whip? And if you couldn't buy one, what's stopping you from making one
      - 13of40 3y ago
        It's a device for motivating horses to pull your carriage, which was high tech at one time but was obsoleted by the introduction of the motor car. It became a metaphor for technologies obsoleted by other advancements. The irony is that in the olden days, from my perspective, it would have been a massive pain in the ass to get one, because you'd probably have to mail a check to some Amish mail order company and wait a month, but now I can just click over to Amazon and get it in two days.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    Sure but there is definitely more access to info about what is happening in the world so stuff someone might've had simplistic view on 20 years ago now can be researched and looked at by anyone that wants. I also think the fact many people work in not really all that creatively stimulating jobs to begin with have a lot of effect on that. When you are at school you learn something new every day and are occasionally facing different mental challenges, when you work at retail not really.
BlargMcLarg 3y ago
Eh, from a 'different society', school stopped holding my hand going into adulthood and gave me far more freedom than any job has ever done so far. Most jobs had more in common with elementary school, trying to control most aspects. Only elementary school did the feedback loop far better. None of that stopped procrastinating. Most people fill the excess time allotted regardless.
pessimizer 3y ago
I think this a problem that LLMs can help with. If you feed them your goals, they can give you a program back, and adjust that program based on changing circumstances.
- helmholtz 3y ago
  Oh my god can we just have radio silence from fucking LLMs on one thread please!
  - hillcrestenigma 3y ago
    Applying LLMs or AI to our schedules isn't an unreasonable idea. If it could improve our own productivity even just slightly, I would consider that a win. It would be democratizing the effects of value add from traditional assistants to everyone. I think good ideas sometimes come from connecting two concepts that seem unrelated, and we shouldn't really silence any of these ideas.
  - Graffur 3y ago
    Hey there. That reply doesn't seem to vibe with how HN works.
    - rchaud 3y ago
      If anything, the HN guidelines need to be updated to discourage "AI use case-bro" comments.
      - Graffur 3y ago
        I think you might be in the wrong place. You're annoyed that people are discussing a 6-month old promising technology on _hacker_ news?
        rchaud 3y ago
        Indeed I am. It's not an AI topic, so a comment of the "use an LLM for this" variety is no more enlightening than a "here's how blockchain can help" comment on a non-blockchain topic was 5 years ago.
bsder 3y ago
> On top of that, minor tasks and chores pile up This. So much this. "Rich" people often have so much time available to them because they make enough money to offload all the minor tasks (shopping for basic needs, government paperwork and bureaucracy, scheduling appointments, etc.).
- wmeredith 3y ago
  Paradoxically, wealthy people often feel like they have less time, because their opportunities are so much broader than those without less money. So it’s a factor of rising opportunity costs.
  - balaji1 3y ago
    I would be happier with fewer chores and admin tasks. I never get those done in one shot. They take a lot of time, cost too much to delegate. Some tasks I don’t even know how I can delegate but I’m sure some people do. And just to avoid the rich vs poor, I’ll caveat - some people’s first instinct is to successfully delegate or get help. And or they spend more. Caveat’s caveat: it can be learned and practiced, like anything.

balaji1 3y ago

I noticed the phrase "accelerating world" on https://www.oliverburkeman.com/books https://www.oliverburkeman.com/books. Nice wording. A lot of people feel it.

Tomte 3y ago
See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmut_Rosa https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmut_Rosa A German sociologist who coined the Akzelerationszirkel (circle of acceleration).
miahwilde 3y ago
Here's a thought: what if it's less that the rate of change is increasing and more that our mental models of the world tend to solidify as we age such that the perceived rate of change of the world increases. This is more an observation of the "the world was a lot simpler when I was young" mentality rather than a comment on the long range compounding effects of technology though they might be related.
- wizzwizz4 3y ago
  It might also be increased awareness of changes. There are many things in my personal history that I viewed as normal, constant things, but that were actually changing significantly all the while I was learning about their natures.
- balaji1 3y ago
  Your phrasing is also super interesting. > mental models of the world tend to solidify as we age Mental models solidifying over time might be true. But "acceleration" is a shared experience for entire generations (of peers). It seems a broad enough experience that it is more than perceived. Like a grandma is content to read books instead of being on top of HN, etc. Solidified mental models also gives perspective on life and its direction. And people tend to converge on few similar timeless mental models on a meta level. > long range compounding effects of technology It's correct, most modern systems are enabled by better tech at its root. But the collective will of humanity (at least right now) is to leverage tech to push it further. Instead of a sinusoid where we take time to fix unintended side-effects we created (like pollution, resource depletion, re-assess education, etc).
- jamiek88 3y ago
  You deffo have something there, we do ossify if we aren’t careful or we aren’t naturally childlike (Feynman type curiosity), but I think it’s also true that acceleration is happening. I mean that’s pretty objective. In my own lifetime (only in my 40’s!) social norms and expectations have rapidly changed as has the constant sense of urgency injected into the zeitgeist by profit making 24hr news and social media. Propaganda was something you read about in history books (naively) not something you were bombarded with constantly by both anti and pro political positions. When teens went home they had relief from social pressure now they are never, ever, alone with their thoughts. Fall asleep clutching their iPhones wake up to 100 missed messages. Ever seen a normally popular teens phone light up? I got a sense of panic and said ‘what’s wrong? What’s happened?’ And they just looked at me weird. What? This is normal? My phone only blows up like that when there is a disaster!
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I have a minimum of notifications turned on. I'll sometimes be in a work group chat for a customer meeting or something. But otherwise push notification traffic is pretty low. And sometimes I'm polling a lot but I can turn that off.
    - balaji1 3y ago
      wish all the teens (and adults, at least the adults) were so intentional and in control. Most most most people are really not in control over their phone use; no one can deny that.
    - jamiek88 3y ago
      Me too but my mental well being doesn’t require constant contact and social communication. In fact it depends on the opposite.
- 13of40 3y ago
  It's kind of interesting that emotionally I agree with that feeling, but if you just look at the fact that I'm reading what you wrote in real time from the most remote island chain in the world, and with a couple of finger swipes I could switch apps and buy a buggy whip with one click...I mean just imagine what you would have to do to buy a buggy whip in 1985.
  - wholinator2 3y ago
    What the hell is a buggy whip? And if you couldn't buy one, what's stopping you from making one
    - 13of40 3y ago
      It's a device for motivating horses to pull your carriage, which was high tech at one time but was obsoleted by the introduction of the motor car. It became a metaphor for technologies obsoleted by other advancements. The irony is that in the olden days, from my perspective, it would have been a massive pain in the ass to get one, because you'd probably have to mail a check to some Amish mail order company and wait a month, but now I can just click over to Amazon and get it in two days.
- ilyt 3y ago
  Sure but there is definitely more access to info about what is happening in the world so stuff someone might've had simplistic view on 20 years ago now can be researched and looked at by anyone that wants. I also think the fact many people work in not really all that creatively stimulating jobs to begin with have a lot of effect on that. When you are at school you learn something new every day and are occasionally facing different mental challenges, when you work at retail not really.

BlargMcLarg 3y ago

Eh, from a 'different society', school stopped holding my hand going into adulthood and gave me far more freedom than any job has ever done so far. Most jobs had more in common with elementary school, trying to control most aspects. Only elementary school did the feedback loop far better. None of that stopped procrastinating. Most people fill the excess time allotted regardless.

pessimizer 3y ago

I think this a problem that LLMs can help with. If you feed them your goals, they can give you a program back, and adjust that program based on changing circumstances.

helmholtz 3y ago
Oh my god can we just have radio silence from fucking LLMs on one thread please!
- hillcrestenigma 3y ago
  Applying LLMs or AI to our schedules isn't an unreasonable idea. If it could improve our own productivity even just slightly, I would consider that a win. It would be democratizing the effects of value add from traditional assistants to everyone. I think good ideas sometimes come from connecting two concepts that seem unrelated, and we shouldn't really silence any of these ideas.
- Graffur 3y ago
  Hey there. That reply doesn't seem to vibe with how HN works.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    If anything, the HN guidelines need to be updated to discourage "AI use case-bro" comments.
    - Graffur 3y ago
      I think you might be in the wrong place. You're annoyed that people are discussing a 6-month old promising technology on _hacker_ news?
      - rchaud 3y ago
        Indeed I am. It's not an AI topic, so a comment of the "use an LLM for this" variety is no more enlightening than a "here's how blockchain can help" comment on a non-blockchain topic was 5 years ago.

bsder 3y ago

> On top of that, minor tasks and chores pile up This. So much this. "Rich" people often have so much time available to them because they make enough money to offload all the minor tasks (shopping for basic needs, government paperwork and bureaucracy, scheduling appointments, etc.).

wmeredith 3y ago
Paradoxically, wealthy people often feel like they have less time, because their opportunities are so much broader than those without less money. So it’s a factor of rising opportunity costs.
- balaji1 3y ago
  I would be happier with fewer chores and admin tasks. I never get those done in one shot. They take a lot of time, cost too much to delegate. Some tasks I don’t even know how I can delegate but I’m sure some people do. And just to avoid the rich vs poor, I’ll caveat - some people’s first instinct is to successfully delegate or get help. And or they spend more. Caveat’s caveat: it can be learned and practiced, like anything.