5 ms·

Definitely have to adjust for TDP. The new gen Intel processors match the M2 performance for $100-150. TDP is triple but still relatively low. There isn't reall

Definitely have to adjust for TDP. The new gen Intel processors match the M2 performance for $100-150. TDP is triple but still relatively low. There isn't really anything available from non-niche retailers that approaches the TDP of Apple chips. And what does tends to be a binned just to be sold as mobile. Better to buy the standard chip and limit clock speed. What also shocks me is more expensive chips that offer inconsequential gains in processing for double TDP. I'm more likely to invest in a slight performance hit for much lower TDP.

znpy 3y ago
Just wondering, what is the cpu that you picked? But I agree, tdp should really be kept in consideration.
- mrangle 3y ago
  Look at the i3. Though it isn't much different than last gen, and that buying decision should be mostly determined by price (for the same price, go later). Unless there are significant enough non-speed related architecture differences that I am not aware of and that are important to you (possible). Try to catch a sale. Going upline will double the TDP for little gain, especially if dollars spent is important as well. People that have a specific interest in more L2 and L3 cache may see the logic in going upline. The TDP and price equivalent Ryzen will equate to about 10% better gaming performance, and better multi-thread performance, but lesser single thread performance.
  - wtallis 3y ago
    > Look at the i3. Though it isn't much different than last gen IIRC, the desktop i3 and i5 processors are in many cases literally last-gen, since Intel is using a mix of Alder Lake and Raptor Lake dies on most of the "13th gen" desktop products that do not have more cores or cache than Alder Lake did.
    - mrangle 3y ago
      Right. Price should determine what one buys. There is a marginal performance bump between them for the same advertised TDP, and so suppose if price is the same then next gen it is. Otherwise buy what is cheapest.
Havoc 3y ago
>Definitely have to adjust for TDP Considered certainly, adjust less so. If you want to adjust for something price makes more sense than TDP
- mrangle 3y ago
  I consider price and TDP as the two important variables, for performance, that aren't completely reconcilable. They should be considered separately, and then together for a buying decision for example. To illustrate and acknowledging that this calculation is more practical than satisfying to mathematicians: I wouldn't say that a chip that takes half of the power and costs half as much, while performing three times better, than a decade old chip is twelve times better all around. Even though the gains exceed both those indicated by price and watts, taken on their own. It performs roughly six times better per dollar spent and watt consumed, respectively. These performance differences are not reconcilable into a single number that most would quickly understand, but they should be considered together. And this in fact was the specific situation for the processor that I replaced. Not accounting for processing improvements that aren't included in thread processing speed. Try playing 4k video with a decade old processor while monitoring its utilization. Not to be argumentative as everyone is certainly entitled to their own weighting. I value TDP more than I do dollars spent. Though, both will always be unavoidably important.
skippyboxedhero 3y ago
Yes, there is. AMD has desktop chips with the same TDP as Mac laptops. The latest series of AMD chips are more powerful and more power-efficient. I think power efficiency by itself is a laudable goal, but the idea that other chipmakers don't optimize this doesn't make sense...you have to if you are building a laptop. A lot of the desktop chips are ludicrously overtuned, even AMD's chips, but the laptop chips have to be power-efficient due to the limitations on cooling. I would look in particular at the AMD APUs that are being used in handheld devices. Unlike Mac's chips, which promised much but delivered little, they are actually delivering desktop GPU-tier (in the range of 1050/1060) performance in a 20W package and under.
- mrangle 3y ago
  I know that there are chips with TDPs in this range. My point was that they aren't readily available to consumers as a component. Obviously, I wasn't talking about purchasing pre-built devices. Anyone can buy a mobile device, laptop, or Alibaba router / pc with 10-20 watt TDP chips. The context was for stand alone chip purchases. Would you point out where it is trivial to purchase a new AMD chip under 30 watts TDP? I'd sincerely be interested and the question isn't asked rhetorically.

znpy 3y ago

Just wondering, what is the cpu that you picked? But I agree, tdp should really be kept in consideration.

mrangle 3y ago
Look at the i3. Though it isn't much different than last gen, and that buying decision should be mostly determined by price (for the same price, go later). Unless there are significant enough non-speed related architecture differences that I am not aware of and that are important to you (possible). Try to catch a sale. Going upline will double the TDP for little gain, especially if dollars spent is important as well. People that have a specific interest in more L2 and L3 cache may see the logic in going upline. The TDP and price equivalent Ryzen will equate to about 10% better gaming performance, and better multi-thread performance, but lesser single thread performance.
- wtallis 3y ago
  > Look at the i3. Though it isn't much different than last gen IIRC, the desktop i3 and i5 processors are in many cases literally last-gen, since Intel is using a mix of Alder Lake and Raptor Lake dies on most of the "13th gen" desktop products that do not have more cores or cache than Alder Lake did.
  - mrangle 3y ago
    Right. Price should determine what one buys. There is a marginal performance bump between them for the same advertised TDP, and so suppose if price is the same then next gen it is. Otherwise buy what is cheapest.

Havoc 3y ago

>Definitely have to adjust for TDP Considered certainly, adjust less so. If you want to adjust for something price makes more sense than TDP

mrangle 3y ago
I consider price and TDP as the two important variables, for performance, that aren't completely reconcilable. They should be considered separately, and then together for a buying decision for example. To illustrate and acknowledging that this calculation is more practical than satisfying to mathematicians: I wouldn't say that a chip that takes half of the power and costs half as much, while performing three times better, than a decade old chip is twelve times better all around. Even though the gains exceed both those indicated by price and watts, taken on their own. It performs roughly six times better per dollar spent and watt consumed, respectively. These performance differences are not reconcilable into a single number that most would quickly understand, but they should be considered together. And this in fact was the specific situation for the processor that I replaced. Not accounting for processing improvements that aren't included in thread processing speed. Try playing 4k video with a decade old processor while monitoring its utilization. Not to be argumentative as everyone is certainly entitled to their own weighting. I value TDP more than I do dollars spent. Though, both will always be unavoidably important.

skippyboxedhero 3y ago

Yes, there is. AMD has desktop chips with the same TDP as Mac laptops. The latest series of AMD chips are more powerful and more power-efficient. I think power efficiency by itself is a laudable goal, but the idea that other chipmakers don't optimize this doesn't make sense...you have to if you are building a laptop. A lot of the desktop chips are ludicrously overtuned, even AMD's chips, but the laptop chips have to be power-efficient due to the limitations on cooling. I would look in particular at the AMD APUs that are being used in handheld devices. Unlike Mac's chips, which promised much but delivered little, they are actually delivering desktop GPU-tier (in the range of 1050/1060) performance in a 20W package and under.

mrangle 3y ago
I know that there are chips with TDPs in this range. My point was that they aren't readily available to consumers as a component. Obviously, I wasn't talking about purchasing pre-built devices. Anyone can buy a mobile device, laptop, or Alibaba router / pc with 10-20 watt TDP chips. The context was for stand alone chip purchases. Would you point out where it is trivial to purchase a new AMD chip under 30 watts TDP? I'd sincerely be interested and the question isn't asked rhetorically.