4 ms·

When I moved to NYC from Kyiv, I was actually surprised by how chill the traffic in New York is. Obviously it can get annoying around bridges and tunnels, but

When I moved to NYC from Kyiv, I was actually surprised by how chill the traffic in New York is. Obviously it can get annoying around bridges and tunnels, but outside those areas it’s pretty easy to get around, and I live on the west side of FiDi. Not against this legislation, I think it’s a good idea, but I personally spent more time in traffic on Long Island, and upper Manhattan. I don’t own a car though, I just rent when necessary.

bequanna 3y ago
I guess I always thought the two challenges in the city were entering/leaving and parking. There doesn’t seem to consistently be TOO much traffic when you’re just trying to get around Manhattan.
- fellowmartian 3y ago
  Yes, that’s been my experience as well.
- ghaff 3y ago
  It depends a bit on when and where. But, yeah, all the choke points in and out and then finding/paying for parking are at least among the biggest pain points. I almost never drive to Manhattan from Massachusetts even though it would be faster from my house and that's driven in no small part by the pain of driving into Manhattan from the north.
dangus 3y ago
This anecdote is basically another way of saying the incentives of urban design align and become self-fulfilling prophecies. Suburban dwellers stuck in the automobile mindset automatically assume that big cities must have the most horrendous traffic. It's seems like a logical conclusion: if traffic in my 50,000 person suburb is horrendous, it must be downright horrific in the big city. But that's not really how it works. In NYC one two track subway tunnel can handle 15 lanes-worth of car occupants. Ironically, making transit, cycling, and walking more convenient than driving and "punishing" the automobiles actually makes traffic and driving more pleasant. I think a lot of suburban folks would be really surprised that a two-lane 25mph road can comfortably handle traffic for neighborhoods that have 10x the density of a typical automobile-designed connected with large arterial roadways. When you design a place to only accommodate vehicles, vehicles are what you get.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > Suburban dwellers stuck in the automobile mindset automatically assume that big cities must have the most horrendous traffic. Have you driven in Manhattan?
  - dangus 3y ago
    Why would I drive in Manhattan? "Traffic" isn't just cars, it's also bikes, walking, and transit – it's the flow of people moving from one place to another.
- toast0 3y ago
  I've not driven in NYC. But I've driven in LA, SF, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, Milwaukee, maybe a bit in Dallas. Big cities do have horrendous traffic in high density areas. Even if it's free flowing, there are intersections so often and pedestrians everywhere and so speeds are necessarily quite low. You wouldn't drive through there unless you don't have a choice; maybe the ferry lets off downtown and you need to get to the freeway from there, but usually you're driving through downtown to get to somewhere downtown, which means you need to park, which is also terrible. Of course, NYC is bigger than I think, and there might be some parts where density is relatively less, but the only reasons to have a car there are if you're a cab/limo driver or if you're doing the cannonball run.
  - sylens 3y ago
    To be fair, none of those cities have the transit infrastructure that NYC has. In fact some of them (LA, Dallas, maybe even Seattle) are cities I would classify as “car first”
  - CSMastermind 3y ago
    I have driven in pretty much every major North American city and NYC isn't even in the top 10 of worst traffic or places to drive, there are some times and specific areas where it can get bad but I'd happily drive in NYC every day than have commute in Seattle. I think at least in part that's due to the fact that bad drivers are scared away by New York so don't even attempt to drive there, or if they do they give up quickly. NYC also has the only public transit system in the US that I don't mind taking so I'm sure that play a role as well.

bequanna 3y ago

I guess I always thought the two challenges in the city were entering/leaving and parking. There doesn’t seem to consistently be TOO much traffic when you’re just trying to get around Manhattan.

fellowmartian 3y ago
Yes, that’s been my experience as well.
ghaff 3y ago
It depends a bit on when and where. But, yeah, all the choke points in and out and then finding/paying for parking are at least among the biggest pain points. I almost never drive to Manhattan from Massachusetts even though it would be faster from my house and that's driven in no small part by the pain of driving into Manhattan from the north.

dangus 3y ago

This anecdote is basically another way of saying the incentives of urban design align and become self-fulfilling prophecies. Suburban dwellers stuck in the automobile mindset automatically assume that big cities must have the most horrendous traffic. It's seems like a logical conclusion: if traffic in my 50,000 person suburb is horrendous, it must be downright horrific in the big city. But that's not really how it works. In NYC one two track subway tunnel can handle 15 lanes-worth of car occupants. Ironically, making transit, cycling, and walking more convenient than driving and "punishing" the automobiles actually makes traffic and driving more pleasant. I think a lot of suburban folks would be really surprised that a two-lane 25mph road can comfortably handle traffic for neighborhoods that have 10x the density of a typical automobile-designed connected with large arterial roadways. When you design a place to only accommodate vehicles, vehicles are what you get.

cyberax 3y ago
> Suburban dwellers stuck in the automobile mindset automatically assume that big cities must have the most horrendous traffic. Have you driven in Manhattan?
- dangus 3y ago
  Why would I drive in Manhattan? "Traffic" isn't just cars, it's also bikes, walking, and transit – it's the flow of people moving from one place to another.
toast0 3y ago
I've not driven in NYC. But I've driven in LA, SF, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, Milwaukee, maybe a bit in Dallas. Big cities do have horrendous traffic in high density areas. Even if it's free flowing, there are intersections so often and pedestrians everywhere and so speeds are necessarily quite low. You wouldn't drive through there unless you don't have a choice; maybe the ferry lets off downtown and you need to get to the freeway from there, but usually you're driving through downtown to get to somewhere downtown, which means you need to park, which is also terrible. Of course, NYC is bigger than I think, and there might be some parts where density is relatively less, but the only reasons to have a car there are if you're a cab/limo driver or if you're doing the cannonball run.
- sylens 3y ago
  To be fair, none of those cities have the transit infrastructure that NYC has. In fact some of them (LA, Dallas, maybe even Seattle) are cities I would classify as “car first”
- CSMastermind 3y ago
  I have driven in pretty much every major North American city and NYC isn't even in the top 10 of worst traffic or places to drive, there are some times and specific areas where it can get bad but I'd happily drive in NYC every day than have commute in Seattle. I think at least in part that's due to the fact that bad drivers are scared away by New York so don't even attempt to drive there, or if they do they give up quickly. NYC also has the only public transit system in the US that I don't mind taking so I'm sure that play a role as well.