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I think any government that is bought and controlled by capital is a capitalist government, so in my opinion, you are either wrong or lying.

by jtode 3y ago

yanderekko 3y ago
>I think any government that is bought and controlled by capital is a capitalist government, so in my opinion, you are either wrong or lying. So did communist states have capitalist governments then? Is this boiling down to "real communism has never been tried" again?
- FireInsight 3y ago
  Real capitalism has never been tried either, there is no such thing as an ideologically pure society. Though it is important to note that all of the worlds governments are influenced by capital while "less" are influenced by the effort to achieve a classless society.
  - jtode 3y ago
    Capitalism happens every time someone sits on their ass and collects dividends while other people work. Don't kid yourself.
- jtode 3y ago
  Nah, and I'm no communist either. I'm the kind of wishy washy leftist that they hate. Authoritarianism does not know a political stripe. Before 1917, the government of Russia was a self-identified autocracy with a god-given right to make Russians live how Russians have mostly always lived. The worker's movement that took that down instituted a thing they called communism, but which was really just the old system with different uniforms and modernist art. Not that efforts were not made, and not that the old guard in the rest of Europe didn't take steps, but it was mostly that the revolutionaries didn't really know how to operate a ship of state, so they fell back on old habits and kept the branding. It ended up as a collectivist nightmare, and it still had a privileged class at the top, but there was no ideological conviction that capital was a positive force which could do no wrong, so no, they did not have a capitalist government, and pejoritavely calling it communist is fair IMO, I think communism is a thing that could be done but which won't, in a just way, in the lifetime of anyone alive now. It can be done badly and people keep trying. I'm a 30s-style socialist, myself. I think the New Deal was doing well and Americans could have had a nice country all this time, but I dunno, everyone wants to roll those dice and be one of the upper class instead of demanding justice now.

I think any government that is bought and controlled by capital is a capitalist government, so in my opinion, you are either wrong or lying.

by jtode 3y ago

I think any government that is bought and controlled by capital is a capitalist government, so in my opinion, you are either wrong or lying.

yanderekko 3y ago

>I think any government that is bought and controlled by capital is a capitalist government, so in my opinion, you are either wrong or lying. So did communist states have capitalist governments then? Is this boiling down to "real communism has never been tried" again?

FireInsight 3y ago
Real capitalism has never been tried either, there is no such thing as an ideologically pure society. Though it is important to note that all of the worlds governments are influenced by capital while "less" are influenced by the effort to achieve a classless society.
- jtode 3y ago
  Capitalism happens every time someone sits on their ass and collects dividends while other people work. Don't kid yourself.
jtode 3y ago
Nah, and I'm no communist either. I'm the kind of wishy washy leftist that they hate. Authoritarianism does not know a political stripe. Before 1917, the government of Russia was a self-identified autocracy with a god-given right to make Russians live how Russians have mostly always lived. The worker's movement that took that down instituted a thing they called communism, but which was really just the old system with different uniforms and modernist art. Not that efforts were not made, and not that the old guard in the rest of Europe didn't take steps, but it was mostly that the revolutionaries didn't really know how to operate a ship of state, so they fell back on old habits and kept the branding. It ended up as a collectivist nightmare, and it still had a privileged class at the top, but there was no ideological conviction that capital was a positive force which could do no wrong, so no, they did not have a capitalist government, and pejoritavely calling it communist is fair IMO, I think communism is a thing that could be done but which won't, in a just way, in the lifetime of anyone alive now. It can be done badly and people keep trying. I'm a 30s-style socialist, myself. I think the New Deal was doing well and Americans could have had a nice country all this time, but I dunno, everyone wants to roll those dice and be one of the upper class instead of demanding justice now.