4 ms·

Isn’t That Spatial?

19 points by langitbiru 3y ago

jgalt212 3y ago
> standard issue coder’s laptop Why do all the coder's have Macs when the server code they write will run on Linux (most likely) and client code will run on Windows (most likely)?
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Because they’re great to write the code on, which is what developers do
  - jgalt212 3y ago
    Yes, this I have heard, but http://locahost:8000 http://locahost:8000 on Safari is not a great way run to run a quick check of a web page.
- v8xi 3y ago
  I'm no expert, but probably because coding on Windows is a PITA, consumer Linux is unreliable (relying almost entirely on open-source - a great thing but doesn't have the same driving force), and Mac runs a Unix operating system.
- dharmab 3y ago
  MDM tooling and support contracts are widely available for mac, the battery lasts a full day, and the hardware is physically of high quality which is important if you have to lug your computer with you 24/7 during your on call shift. Linux environments are fungible, unless you're kernel hacking you can develop using a container, VM or cloud hosted environment. Client code most likely runs on iOS/Android, not desktop.
newaccount74 3y ago
While the situations Apple showed in the Keynote were cringeworthy and unrealistic, I don't think Apple Vision is a dead end. On the contrary, for the first time I see a use case for a VR/AR headset: it's a tool for knowledge workers. Some people manage to get all their work done on nothing but an iPad or a tiny netbook. They can keep everything they are working on in their head. I struggle with this. I work best when I am surrounded by my work. Notes on a desk, a design outline on a whiteboard, the website open on my laptop, the code on a different screen, facetime on my iPhone... I'm way more productive when my work is spatially arranged around me, instead of stacked in browser tabs. Of course, that requires lots of screens and devices, and a big dedicated space. Apple Vision looks like it could allow me to work like that when I'm not in my office. I don't really worry what I look like when I work. Sure, the headset looks stupid, but so does my respirator when I'm in the workshop spraying something.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  I think from what they showed off it's not a tool for knowledge workers either. It looks like it has the "iPad Problem" where it's artificially handicapped. If I need another computer and that computer must be made by Apple to do data analysis, programming, or some other workflow not blessed by Apple what's the point? Okay, it'll probably work with PCs through some clunky workaround but that's the point.
  - newaccount74 3y ago
    I don't consider needing the extra computer a handicap. I wouldn't want my code compiling and test suites to run on a computer strapped to my face, no matter how powerful it is. And as part of my work, I connect to a lot of different machines, either through SSH or through Screen Sharing. If I could have a separate screen for each of the machines it would be super sweet. Right now, if I want to stream some logs from a remote server, I have to find some free space on one of my physical displays. With Apple Vision I could just create an additional virtual display somewhere. I think Apple Vision is already a useful product if it just offers freely configurable virtual screens. Whether the actual computing happens on the headset or on a different device is something I don't care about.
EarthLaunch 3y ago
I read up until this: > Two grand a year rivals the lease payments on an entry-level car. So I can lease a very crappy car or own an awesome headset? Easy choice. > Back at HQ, the iPhone, possibly the most utile product in history, costs $1,000 and is viable for three-plus years. 2 years max if your phone is important to you. Why 3 years for the phone but not the headset? > Splurging on an 85-inch 4K flat-screen TV will cost you $1,500, but it will last about seven years, And be incredibly less useful by every single measure. Who even watches TV? > and your entire family gets to watch at the same time. Great, I'll have my nonexistent kids invite the grandkids. What a money saver while we consume Netflix instead of doing something interesting. Anyway, point is it's being deliberately biased.
- v8xi 3y ago
  I don't think you understand how the 99% live
- ericpauley 3y ago
  > 2 years max if your phone is important to you. What point does replacing a 2yo iPhone serve aside from spouting conspicuous consumption on HN? The 2.5yo iPhone 12 has better single core perf than the latest gen Samsung Galaxy S23, supports 5G, has a perfectly good display, and will get updates for years to come.
specialist 3y ago
I've been a big fan of Prof Galloway. He's a long time VR skeptic. I am too, FWIW. Methinks Apple is working towards AR. Stuff like Google Glasses, heads up displays, fancy visual overlay apps with iPhone's cameras. Augmented reality is The Correct Answer™. Some day. Meanwhile... First gen Vision Pro 2023 should be more way expensive (+$10,000), with a modest 10k units sold annually. Initial customers are the usual suspects: researchers, education, entertainment, technophiles. Just get Vision Pro out there, see how it goes, see what people do with it. The ultimate flag ship product. Like their Studio Display. Then over the next 5-10 years, zero in on product-market fit. Buying plenty of time for Apple to ramp up their own MicroLED production. Plenty of time for compelling apps to seed the market.
- dharmab 3y ago
  Who is going to create software for an install base of 10,000 people?
  - specialist 3y ago
    David Smith, for one: A developer's view of Vision Pro https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36297477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36297477

19 points by langitbiru 3y ago

> standard issue coder’s laptop Why do all the coder's have Macs when the server code they write will run on Linux (most likely) and client code will run on Windows (most likely)?

ethanbond 3y ago
Because they’re great to write the code on, which is what developers do
- jgalt212 3y ago
  Yes, this I have heard, but http://locahost:8000 http://locahost:8000 on Safari is not a great way run to run a quick check of a web page.
v8xi 3y ago
I'm no expert, but probably because coding on Windows is a PITA, consumer Linux is unreliable (relying almost entirely on open-source - a great thing but doesn't have the same driving force), and Mac runs a Unix operating system.
dharmab 3y ago
MDM tooling and support contracts are widely available for mac, the battery lasts a full day, and the hardware is physically of high quality which is important if you have to lug your computer with you 24/7 during your on call shift. Linux environments are fungible, unless you're kernel hacking you can develop using a container, VM or cloud hosted environment. Client code most likely runs on iOS/Android, not desktop.

newaccount74 3y ago

While the situations Apple showed in the Keynote were cringeworthy and unrealistic, I don't think Apple Vision is a dead end. On the contrary, for the first time I see a use case for a VR/AR headset: it's a tool for knowledge workers. Some people manage to get all their work done on nothing but an iPad or a tiny netbook. They can keep everything they are working on in their head. I struggle with this. I work best when I am surrounded by my work. Notes on a desk, a design outline on a whiteboard, the website open on my laptop, the code on a different screen, facetime on my iPhone... I'm way more productive when my work is spatially arranged around me, instead of stacked in browser tabs. Of course, that requires lots of screens and devices, and a big dedicated space. Apple Vision looks like it could allow me to work like that when I'm not in my office. I don't really worry what I look like when I work. Sure, the headset looks stupid, but so does my respirator when I'm in the workshop spraying something.

goosedragons 3y ago
I think from what they showed off it's not a tool for knowledge workers either. It looks like it has the "iPad Problem" where it's artificially handicapped. If I need another computer and that computer must be made by Apple to do data analysis, programming, or some other workflow not blessed by Apple what's the point? Okay, it'll probably work with PCs through some clunky workaround but that's the point.
- newaccount74 3y ago
  I don't consider needing the extra computer a handicap. I wouldn't want my code compiling and test suites to run on a computer strapped to my face, no matter how powerful it is. And as part of my work, I connect to a lot of different machines, either through SSH or through Screen Sharing. If I could have a separate screen for each of the machines it would be super sweet. Right now, if I want to stream some logs from a remote server, I have to find some free space on one of my physical displays. With Apple Vision I could just create an additional virtual display somewhere. I think Apple Vision is already a useful product if it just offers freely configurable virtual screens. Whether the actual computing happens on the headset or on a different device is something I don't care about.

EarthLaunch 3y ago

I read up until this: > Two grand a year rivals the lease payments on an entry-level car. So I can lease a very crappy car or own an awesome headset? Easy choice. > Back at HQ, the iPhone, possibly the most utile product in history, costs $1,000 and is viable for three-plus years. 2 years max if your phone is important to you. Why 3 years for the phone but not the headset? > Splurging on an 85-inch 4K flat-screen TV will cost you $1,500, but it will last about seven years, And be incredibly less useful by every single measure. Who even watches TV? > and your entire family gets to watch at the same time. Great, I'll have my nonexistent kids invite the grandkids. What a money saver while we consume Netflix instead of doing something interesting. Anyway, point is it's being deliberately biased.

v8xi 3y ago
I don't think you understand how the 99% live
ericpauley 3y ago
> 2 years max if your phone is important to you. What point does replacing a 2yo iPhone serve aside from spouting conspicuous consumption on HN? The 2.5yo iPhone 12 has better single core perf than the latest gen Samsung Galaxy S23, supports 5G, has a perfectly good display, and will get updates for years to come.

specialist 3y ago

I've been a big fan of Prof Galloway. He's a long time VR skeptic. I am too, FWIW. Methinks Apple is working towards AR. Stuff like Google Glasses, heads up displays, fancy visual overlay apps with iPhone's cameras. Augmented reality is The Correct Answer™. Some day. Meanwhile... First gen Vision Pro 2023 should be more way expensive (+$10,000), with a modest 10k units sold annually. Initial customers are the usual suspects: researchers, education, entertainment, technophiles. Just get Vision Pro out there, see how it goes, see what people do with it. The ultimate flag ship product. Like their Studio Display. Then over the next 5-10 years, zero in on product-market fit. Buying plenty of time for Apple to ramp up their own MicroLED production. Plenty of time for compelling apps to seed the market.

dharmab 3y ago
Who is going to create software for an install base of 10,000 people?
- specialist 3y ago
  David Smith, for one: A developer's view of Vision Pro https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36297477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36297477