5 ms·

legitimately the shittiest, most boring, and most unimaginatively dystopian use for AI I have ever seen.

by denhaus 3y ago

cinntaile 3y ago
Why do you think discovering illegal tax evasion is not good?
- stavros 3y ago
  Because middle-to-lower-class people aren't the ones I want paying more taxes.
  - cinntaile 3y ago
    How did you arrive at your conclusion that the pools mentioned in the article belong to middle-to-lower class people? Did you do your own analysis and cross-checked it with their income statements? Myself I would expect the pools to disproportionally belong to well-off people. I don't quite get why you differentiate between classes, everybody has to pay taxes. I would prefer the tax agency to go after (illegally evaded) tax revenue where they get the most bang for their buck, this project paid itself back in less than a year so that seems to fit the bill.
    - stavros 3y ago
      Yes, everybody has to pay taxes. The more money you have/make, the more taxes you need to pay, but the case now is that the more money you have, the more you can avoid taxes. Sure, the agency can get more of the non-super-rich people who don't have an army of accountants optimizing their tax structure, but I don't think that's the most equitable thing to do.
- tasubotadas 3y ago
  Monitoring citizens using AI is China-like dystopia.
  - skinnymuch 3y ago
    In America we have a credit score which is quite dystopian. America has the most prisoners and slavery in prisons. The NSA among others monitor citizens.
    - tasubotadas 3y ago
      So?
      - skinnymuch 3y ago
        You made an offhand apolitical comment about China being dystopian in regards where America is arguably worse. I wake up every day in a right wing dystopia. Even worse, people like you lack the knowledge or solidarity with other workers while having too much nationalism and so on. I’m going to assume you wouldn’t be able to explain China’s politics nor explain why Taiwan is granted sovereignty but Palestine isn’t. Both places had people before each imperialist group of people conquered land where people already lived. When’s the last time any typical westerner has ever cared about the indigenous people of Taiwan. This doesn’t contradict anything. More of a case where I’m stating the obvious. Even if you happen to actually care about the indigenous people, you’re still going to arrogantly believe Taiwan is a Democratic good guy country. Let’s not even get into Taiwan being fascist for some time…
pyrale 3y ago
Why? Taxes is what sends children to school, pays for hospitals and funds the infrastructure everyone uses. People love to hear about AI breakthroughs that could transform education or health, why should they not be happy about this? I have many doubts about the actual technical solution, but I wouldn't discard the work because it's for taxation purpose.
- im3w1l 3y ago
  The power balance between state and individual is quite delicate and everything that changes it makes people uneasy. Most people want a situation where law and order is more or less upheld, but the state is otherwise unable to precisely know or control how people live.
  - hkt 3y ago
    Enforcing property taxes is hardly a substantial change to that balance though, realistically.
- darkr 3y ago
  From my understanding they paid CapGemini €24M for this project in order to net €10M in taxes.
  - TMWNN 3y ago
    Most of that will be fixed costs. It won't cost nearly so much the next time.
    - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
      ...when will the next 20.000 swimming pools be done?
      - _Microft 3y ago
        Another commenter pointed out that having a pool influences the property value and thereby tax, so they should be able to collect the tax yearly, not just once.
andybak 3y ago
It's people that can afford pools on their property. They can afford to own property. I'm not shedding many tears here. If even a tiny amount of the money recovered improves the lot of the vulnerable then I find it hard to put this at the top of my "this year's dystopian" list. Your comment however might go on my own "most unimaginative definition of dystopian" list.
- wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
  It costed more to create the AI with capgemini then they recoverd. One of the reason many of us hate taxes is because they always have a "punishment" mindset. They rather lose money and punish someone. Why tax swimming pools anyway?
  - cinntaile 3y ago
    You misunderstand, this is 10M euro extra tax revenue each year and it was only a pilot project covering a small part of France. The payback time is basically less than a year.
    - wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
      Regardless 25 million of tax money to another consultancy is the problem. They are of one the biggest benificiaries of the modern western tax system. It's a complicated problem to solve, but not a 25 million kind of complicated problem. Also the bill isnt finished yet. 30% error rate, they are working on finetuning solving the issues.
      - cinntaile 3y ago
        ROI seems fine, I don't see the issue.
- seydor 3y ago
  The problem with unaffordable housing all over europe should be solved with massive amounts public housing. Pools should be taxed but that does not solve the problem. Everyone pretends they are not looking at the elephant in the room: draconian environmental regulations and lack of resources make the prices of housing go higher and higher. The governments have the money to solve that, instead of making it worse
matsemann 3y ago
AI making normal people lose their jobs, accumulating even more wealth at the top: Good AI making affluent people pay their share of taxes: Dystopian.
- beebeepka 3y ago
  The way I see it, there are some really well off people on this site, so they sympathise with others like them. Off-putting but not unexpected

legitimately the shittiest, most boring, and most unimaginatively dystopian use for AI I have ever seen.

cinntaile 3y ago

Why do you think discovering illegal tax evasion is not good?

stavros 3y ago
Because middle-to-lower-class people aren't the ones I want paying more taxes.
- cinntaile 3y ago
  How did you arrive at your conclusion that the pools mentioned in the article belong to middle-to-lower class people? Did you do your own analysis and cross-checked it with their income statements? Myself I would expect the pools to disproportionally belong to well-off people. I don't quite get why you differentiate between classes, everybody has to pay taxes. I would prefer the tax agency to go after (illegally evaded) tax revenue where they get the most bang for their buck, this project paid itself back in less than a year so that seems to fit the bill.
  - stavros 3y ago
    Yes, everybody has to pay taxes. The more money you have/make, the more taxes you need to pay, but the case now is that the more money you have, the more you can avoid taxes. Sure, the agency can get more of the non-super-rich people who don't have an army of accountants optimizing their tax structure, but I don't think that's the most equitable thing to do.
tasubotadas 3y ago
Monitoring citizens using AI is China-like dystopia.
- skinnymuch 3y ago
  In America we have a credit score which is quite dystopian. America has the most prisoners and slavery in prisons. The NSA among others monitor citizens.
  - tasubotadas 3y ago
    So?
    - skinnymuch 3y ago
      You made an offhand apolitical comment about China being dystopian in regards where America is arguably worse. I wake up every day in a right wing dystopia. Even worse, people like you lack the knowledge or solidarity with other workers while having too much nationalism and so on. I’m going to assume you wouldn’t be able to explain China’s politics nor explain why Taiwan is granted sovereignty but Palestine isn’t. Both places had people before each imperialist group of people conquered land where people already lived. When’s the last time any typical westerner has ever cared about the indigenous people of Taiwan. This doesn’t contradict anything. More of a case where I’m stating the obvious. Even if you happen to actually care about the indigenous people, you’re still going to arrogantly believe Taiwan is a Democratic good guy country. Let’s not even get into Taiwan being fascist for some time…

pyrale 3y ago

Why? Taxes is what sends children to school, pays for hospitals and funds the infrastructure everyone uses. People love to hear about AI breakthroughs that could transform education or health, why should they not be happy about this? I have many doubts about the actual technical solution, but I wouldn't discard the work because it's for taxation purpose.

im3w1l 3y ago
The power balance between state and individual is quite delicate and everything that changes it makes people uneasy. Most people want a situation where law and order is more or less upheld, but the state is otherwise unable to precisely know or control how people live.
- hkt 3y ago
  Enforcing property taxes is hardly a substantial change to that balance though, realistically.
darkr 3y ago
From my understanding they paid CapGemini €24M for this project in order to net €10M in taxes.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  Most of that will be fixed costs. It won't cost nearly so much the next time.
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    ...when will the next 20.000 swimming pools be done?
    - _Microft 3y ago
      Another commenter pointed out that having a pool influences the property value and thereby tax, so they should be able to collect the tax yearly, not just once.

andybak 3y ago

It's people that can afford pools on their property. They can afford to own property. I'm not shedding many tears here. If even a tiny amount of the money recovered improves the lot of the vulnerable then I find it hard to put this at the top of my "this year's dystopian" list. Your comment however might go on my own "most unimaginative definition of dystopian" list.

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
It costed more to create the AI with capgemini then they recoverd. One of the reason many of us hate taxes is because they always have a "punishment" mindset. They rather lose money and punish someone. Why tax swimming pools anyway?
- cinntaile 3y ago
  You misunderstand, this is 10M euro extra tax revenue each year and it was only a pilot project covering a small part of France. The payback time is basically less than a year.
  - wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
    Regardless 25 million of tax money to another consultancy is the problem. They are of one the biggest benificiaries of the modern western tax system. It's a complicated problem to solve, but not a 25 million kind of complicated problem. Also the bill isnt finished yet. 30% error rate, they are working on finetuning solving the issues.
    - cinntaile 3y ago
      ROI seems fine, I don't see the issue.
seydor 3y ago
The problem with unaffordable housing all over europe should be solved with massive amounts public housing. Pools should be taxed but that does not solve the problem. Everyone pretends they are not looking at the elephant in the room: draconian environmental regulations and lack of resources make the prices of housing go higher and higher. The governments have the money to solve that, instead of making it worse

matsemann 3y ago

AI making normal people lose their jobs, accumulating even more wealth at the top: Good AI making affluent people pay their share of taxes: Dystopian.

beebeepka 3y ago
The way I see it, there are some really well off people on this site, so they sympathise with others like them. Off-putting but not unexpected