5 ms·

An observation I have made of my grandparents, who certainly had a bit of money, is everything they own is high quality and has lasted them years. My grandfath

by pwpw 3y ago

An observation I have made of my grandparents, who certainly had a bit of money, is everything they own is high quality and has lasted them years. My grandfather still has his Hickey Freeman suits and sports coats tailored and repaired by a local menswear shop. Their Dualit toaster still works while I have personally gone through many Cuisinart toasters. Their technics AV components still work with their high quality speakers. Their Sony Trinitron TVs still work. Their pots and pans from their wedding are still in active use. Their Pyrex continues to store leftovers decades on. I am currently using the Minolta film camera and lens that my grandfather bought in the 80s for traveling around the world with. When I go to their home, I am always in awe of the high quality objects that still function perfectly fine and can all be passed down. When I look at many of the things my parents own and most of the things I own, I see less and less of that. Our clothes are cheaper. Our pans less resilient. Our technology is less repairable. Buying well certainly leads to a longer lifespan for objects. However, I find that’s becoming tougher and tougher to find these days.

csunbird 3y ago
As my father said: We are too poor to buy cheap stuff.
- antongribok 3y ago
  My father said: We're not rich enough to by cheap things. I wonder if the original saying has been translated multiple times before getting to English.
- ConroyBumpus 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
  - UncleMeat 3y ago
    A nice theory, but ultimately from a novel about something completely different than poverty. It feels today like expensive things are also garbage and that paying more for something does little to ensure its longevity.
mdorazio 3y ago
This sounds to me like a combination of survivorship bias and cost preference. You see the resilient things at your grandparents' house because those are the only things that have survived. All the poor quality things they purchased over the years are gone by now. Also, you and your parents probably favor lower-cost items (as do most people these days) over longevity. This may simply not have been possible in your grandparents' time, pre-globalization. It's still very possible to get high-quality and long-lasting goods (the buyitforlife subreddit is a good starting point), but you're going to pay a lot more for them than most people are willing to in comparison to the "replace it when it breaks" mass-produced-in-China goods.
- pwpw 3y ago
  I definitely agree with you. I would also add that I believe there’s an element of the period of time in which they had the money to purchase their goods. Many goods had been iterated upon and become the best versions while having been around long enough to make an informed decision on high quality products. Today, we have been in a period of rapid change as technology advances. My grandparents bought the best of the analog world. Their CRT TVs were the peak of consumer sets. The world switched to LCDs when I was looking to buy a TV, which took a long time to catch up to the height of CRTs (not until OLED in my opinion). Their film cameras took exceptional pictures. Only recently have most consumer DSLRs begun to achieve the same level of quality. Their cars had battle-tested V6 engines while the cars I looked at had newer, unproven inline 4 engines that came with carbon build up issues. So a mix of survivorship bias and cost preference but also the current state of the market. Fortunately for me, I have been able to purchase a nice PVM to play my old video game consoles on, have made use of my grandfather’s film camera and can develop the film at a local studio, and am able to buy a used car with a proven V6 engine since they are still available in the market. When buying products that will hopefully last, I first look to what my grandparents own as a starting point. Often, purchasing older goods let me take advantage of those points you mentioned. For a current product on the market that is pretty great, I have been pleased with a Moccamaster coffee maker.
  - galacticdessert 3y ago
    Small and efficient ICE engines are as proved a technology as it gets. If you end up buying a V6 engine now it is not because of how good or reliable the engine is, it is either nostalgia or status symbol. So, please don’t and be more mindful of your emissions.
onion2k 3y ago
Our clothes are cheaper... There's a useful function in limited lifespan - things are much easier to update and upgrade. My tastes have changed a lot over the past 20 years. If my clothes lasted longer I'd have a wardrobe full of things I don't like now and wouldn't wear. If my TV lasted 20 years I'd still have an old, inefficient SD CRT box in the corner, or I'd have passed it on to someone else and maybe they'd have scrapped a functioning item now. It's less true for basic things like toasters and pots and pans, but I suspect the lower quality is partly due to being cheaper to make and therefore more accessible. If everything is made well and costs more then wealthy people have things that last and poor people don't have things. Cheaper things balances that inequality a little.
- TonyTrapp 3y ago
  It's not useful that the thing happens to be broken at the point of time where you don't like it anymore anyway. If it wasn't broken and you didn't like it anymore, you could pass it on to someone else.
- pjerem 3y ago
  > My tastes have changed a lot over the past 20 years. If my TV lasted 20 years I'd still have an old, inefficient SD CRT box in the corner Societal context is important here. Did your taste really changed on itself or did the constant marketing pressure changed your taste for clothes and your expectations for what is an acceptable TV ? I mean : of course, I’m a tech enthusiast : I love big modern OLED screens, I love 4K movies and beautiful video games. I’m truly amazed by what we can do. But, does all of this makes me truly happier than when I played with my Nintendo 64 on a cheap CRT screen ? I don’t think so. The pleasure I feel playing video games alone and with my friends never changed with technology evolution. And it’s just an example that can apply to mostly everything. We just change things because we are encouraged to by marketers. Sometimes things are more robust or more efficient and that’s really worth changing, but that’s pretty uncommon.
  - Retric 3y ago
    I really don’t notice much difference between 4k and 1080 or even 720 as long as it’s minimally compressed data. High compression ratios is IMO is a huge driver for 4k because you can hide a multitude of artifacts once individual pixels aren’t as noticeable, but rarely do you compare identical bandwidth streams at 1080 and 4k. That’s IMO what’s driving a lot of technological advancement. It’s not necessarily about needing progress as it is separating yourself from the profit maximization processes which makes most things worse over time. Tiny companies don’t have inherent advantages when it comes to say food, but they don’t have the expertise to perfectly maximize shelf life while keeping the food reasonably palatable. That same maximization causes Windows and smart TV’s to include so much advertising because it’s maximizing their profits at the expense of the product. But you don’t see that in new categories like AR headsets.
alecst 3y ago
My grandparents grew up during the depression. They buy everything on sale, including food. They have olive oil in their cabinets that’s from 2009 (it survived a move.) My grampa, in his own words, loves buying “junk” and “crap” and holding into it forever. They probably spend most of their money on gifts, dining out, cruises, and trading stocks. I love them so much. But I fear the day I have to accept their hand-me-downs. I’ll probably end up with the oil.
wrp 3y ago
My very-elderly parents have a house full of stuff, from appliances to towels, that they bought as a young couple on a tight budget. They were always the type to buy the cheapest thing that would do the job. Even that stuff, though, would last practically indefinitely if you didn't abuse it. Except for some cameras, all the old items I can think of there were made in USA. My own view on this is that manufacturers didn't necessarily have more integrity, they just hadn't yet figured out how to make things more cheaply.
edpichler 3y ago
We all feel the same. The reason is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
itsoktocry 3y ago
>My grandfather still has his Hickey Freeman suits and sports coats tailored and repaired by a local menswear shop. Do you think people are getting new suits because they are "worn out", or perhaps because they're no longer in style? >Their technics AV components still work with their high quality speakers. I'll bet modern engineered speakers will beat those high quality speakers, at a fraction of the price. That's modernity.
- bob1029 3y ago
  > I'll bet modern engineered speakers will beat those high quality speakers, at a fraction of the price. You'd be surprised how shitty most "modern" speakers are. Size is still king. Doesn't matter how fast your fancy microcontrollers are. The big-ass cabinets from the 80s and 90s still sound incredible when you put them next to the typical experience you'd find on the shelves of Target or Best Buy.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Yeah, I'd probably ditch the big stereo system if I were starting over from scratch at this point. But that would be in the interests of downsizing, not because I have any illusions that a soundbar is as good as my surround sound setup with large speakers and a subwoofer.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Correct. The only downside on some of those large speakers is the paper cones can get brittle and break, but when properly repaired they sound great. Often the woofer on the speaker is larger than a modern 5.1 subwoofer.
  - hakfoo 3y ago
    The one argument I can see for modern speakers is materials: theoretically we can have better materials science-- better foams and rubbers for the gaskets and such, better insulating batting. However, it is frustrating that I can't get modern speakers anything like my parents' three-ways with a 12 or 15 inch woofer without finding some esoteric offering.

by pwpw 3y ago

csunbird 3y ago

As my father said: We are too poor to buy cheap stuff.

antongribok 3y ago
My father said: We're not rich enough to by cheap things. I wonder if the original saying has been translated multiple times before getting to English.
ConroyBumpus 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  A nice theory, but ultimately from a novel about something completely different than poverty. It feels today like expensive things are also garbage and that paying more for something does little to ensure its longevity.

mdorazio 3y ago

This sounds to me like a combination of survivorship bias and cost preference. You see the resilient things at your grandparents' house because those are the only things that have survived. All the poor quality things they purchased over the years are gone by now. Also, you and your parents probably favor lower-cost items (as do most people these days) over longevity. This may simply not have been possible in your grandparents' time, pre-globalization. It's still very possible to get high-quality and long-lasting goods (the buyitforlife subreddit is a good starting point), but you're going to pay a lot more for them than most people are willing to in comparison to the "replace it when it breaks" mass-produced-in-China goods.

pwpw 3y ago
I definitely agree with you. I would also add that I believe there’s an element of the period of time in which they had the money to purchase their goods. Many goods had been iterated upon and become the best versions while having been around long enough to make an informed decision on high quality products. Today, we have been in a period of rapid change as technology advances. My grandparents bought the best of the analog world. Their CRT TVs were the peak of consumer sets. The world switched to LCDs when I was looking to buy a TV, which took a long time to catch up to the height of CRTs (not until OLED in my opinion). Their film cameras took exceptional pictures. Only recently have most consumer DSLRs begun to achieve the same level of quality. Their cars had battle-tested V6 engines while the cars I looked at had newer, unproven inline 4 engines that came with carbon build up issues. So a mix of survivorship bias and cost preference but also the current state of the market. Fortunately for me, I have been able to purchase a nice PVM to play my old video game consoles on, have made use of my grandfather’s film camera and can develop the film at a local studio, and am able to buy a used car with a proven V6 engine since they are still available in the market. When buying products that will hopefully last, I first look to what my grandparents own as a starting point. Often, purchasing older goods let me take advantage of those points you mentioned. For a current product on the market that is pretty great, I have been pleased with a Moccamaster coffee maker.
- galacticdessert 3y ago
  Small and efficient ICE engines are as proved a technology as it gets. If you end up buying a V6 engine now it is not because of how good or reliable the engine is, it is either nostalgia or status symbol. So, please don’t and be more mindful of your emissions.

onion2k 3y ago

Our clothes are cheaper... There's a useful function in limited lifespan - things are much easier to update and upgrade. My tastes have changed a lot over the past 20 years. If my clothes lasted longer I'd have a wardrobe full of things I don't like now and wouldn't wear. If my TV lasted 20 years I'd still have an old, inefficient SD CRT box in the corner, or I'd have passed it on to someone else and maybe they'd have scrapped a functioning item now. It's less true for basic things like toasters and pots and pans, but I suspect the lower quality is partly due to being cheaper to make and therefore more accessible. If everything is made well and costs more then wealthy people have things that last and poor people don't have things. Cheaper things balances that inequality a little.

TonyTrapp 3y ago
It's not useful that the thing happens to be broken at the point of time where you don't like it anymore anyway. If it wasn't broken and you didn't like it anymore, you could pass it on to someone else.
pjerem 3y ago
> My tastes have changed a lot over the past 20 years. If my TV lasted 20 years I'd still have an old, inefficient SD CRT box in the corner Societal context is important here. Did your taste really changed on itself or did the constant marketing pressure changed your taste for clothes and your expectations for what is an acceptable TV ? I mean : of course, I’m a tech enthusiast : I love big modern OLED screens, I love 4K movies and beautiful video games. I’m truly amazed by what we can do. But, does all of this makes me truly happier than when I played with my Nintendo 64 on a cheap CRT screen ? I don’t think so. The pleasure I feel playing video games alone and with my friends never changed with technology evolution. And it’s just an example that can apply to mostly everything. We just change things because we are encouraged to by marketers. Sometimes things are more robust or more efficient and that’s really worth changing, but that’s pretty uncommon.
- Retric 3y ago
  I really don’t notice much difference between 4k and 1080 or even 720 as long as it’s minimally compressed data. High compression ratios is IMO is a huge driver for 4k because you can hide a multitude of artifacts once individual pixels aren’t as noticeable, but rarely do you compare identical bandwidth streams at 1080 and 4k. That’s IMO what’s driving a lot of technological advancement. It’s not necessarily about needing progress as it is separating yourself from the profit maximization processes which makes most things worse over time. Tiny companies don’t have inherent advantages when it comes to say food, but they don’t have the expertise to perfectly maximize shelf life while keeping the food reasonably palatable. That same maximization causes Windows and smart TV’s to include so much advertising because it’s maximizing their profits at the expense of the product. But you don’t see that in new categories like AR headsets.

alecst 3y ago

My grandparents grew up during the depression. They buy everything on sale, including food. They have olive oil in their cabinets that’s from 2009 (it survived a move.) My grampa, in his own words, loves buying “junk” and “crap” and holding into it forever. They probably spend most of their money on gifts, dining out, cruises, and trading stocks. I love them so much. But I fear the day I have to accept their hand-me-downs. I’ll probably end up with the oil.

wrp 3y ago

My very-elderly parents have a house full of stuff, from appliances to towels, that they bought as a young couple on a tight budget. They were always the type to buy the cheapest thing that would do the job. Even that stuff, though, would last practically indefinitely if you didn't abuse it. Except for some cameras, all the old items I can think of there were made in USA. My own view on this is that manufacturers didn't necessarily have more integrity, they just hadn't yet figured out how to make things more cheaply.

edpichler 3y ago

We all feel the same. The reason is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

itsoktocry 3y ago

>My grandfather still has his Hickey Freeman suits and sports coats tailored and repaired by a local menswear shop. Do you think people are getting new suits because they are "worn out", or perhaps because they're no longer in style? >Their technics AV components still work with their high quality speakers. I'll bet modern engineered speakers will beat those high quality speakers, at a fraction of the price. That's modernity.

bob1029 3y ago
> I'll bet modern engineered speakers will beat those high quality speakers, at a fraction of the price. You'd be surprised how shitty most "modern" speakers are. Size is still king. Doesn't matter how fast your fancy microcontrollers are. The big-ass cabinets from the 80s and 90s still sound incredible when you put them next to the typical experience you'd find on the shelves of Target or Best Buy.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Yeah, I'd probably ditch the big stereo system if I were starting over from scratch at this point. But that would be in the interests of downsizing, not because I have any illusions that a soundbar is as good as my surround sound setup with large speakers and a subwoofer.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Correct. The only downside on some of those large speakers is the paper cones can get brittle and break, but when properly repaired they sound great. Often the woofer on the speaker is larger than a modern 5.1 subwoofer.
- hakfoo 3y ago
  The one argument I can see for modern speakers is materials: theoretically we can have better materials science-- better foams and rubbers for the gaskets and such, better insulating batting. However, it is frustrating that I can't get modern speakers anything like my parents' three-ways with a 12 or 15 inch woofer without finding some esoteric offering.