5 ms·

> I wonder what the chess pieces were all thinking... talk to those in ukraine and taiwan now.

by tw1984 3y ago

throwaway290 3y ago
But since you are the one speaking, what are your thoughts as a pawn?
H8crilA 3y ago
It's pretty clear, no? Ukrainians seek the destruction of Russia as the political system that we know today, Taiwanese seek maintaining the status quo.
- Bronze_Colossus 3y ago
  Can't say I can speak for Ukraine and Taiwan as you do but I would imagine Taiwan wouldn't want a status qou with missiles striking Taipei on an almost daily basis.
  - H8crilA 3y ago
    No missiles are striking Taipei. "Keep status quo" means keep everything as it is now. It might be short-sighted, but opinion polling and foreign policy are more or less clear on this point.
    - simonh 3y ago
      I think Taiwanese are being pretty long sighted. Sentiment has been steadily shifting in favour of eventual full independence for a long time, but the consensus is still clearly to defer it, perhaps indefinitely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement#Opinion_polls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement#O... I also reject the characterisation of Ukraine or Taiwan as chess pieces. In both cases the western policy is not to push either country towards this or that decision, or this or that status. The policy is to support the self determination of Ukrainians and Taiwanese respectively. The trigger for the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine was not any statement or decision made in the west, it was the policies of the Ukrainian parliament supported by popular demonstrations of ordinary Ukrainians in Kyiv. Likewise China isn't concerned about any US inciting action in respect of Taiwan, it's worried about Taiwan itself choosing to declare independence.
      - tw1984 3y ago
        > The policy is to support the self determination of Ukrainians and Taiwanese respectively. Self determination? I thought people of Crimea and Catalan enjoy the same rights. You seem to be comfortable for dual standard western policies here.
        simonh 3y ago
        In the referendum on Ukrainian independence in the 90s every single oblast voted for Ukrainian independence, including Crimea. In Donetsk and Luhansk it was over 80% with very high turnout. The idea that ethnic Russian means pro Russian is propaganda. It’s just not true. Azov may be unpleasant, but they are undeniably pro Ukrainian, were based in and recruited from Russian speaking areas where under 1% of the population spoke Ukrainian at home. Their web sites used to all be in Russian.
- was8309 3y ago
  are you saying that Ukrainians want more than to just not be invaded?
  - H8crilA 3y ago
    Yes, they want to not be invaded now, not invaded in 5 years, in 10 years, etc. No pieredyshka.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    the gall, am I right? /s

> I wonder what the chess pieces were all thinking... talk to those in ukraine and taiwan now.

by tw1984 3y ago

> I wonder what the chess pieces were all thinking... talk to those in ukraine and taiwan now.

throwaway290 3y ago

But since you are the one speaking, what are your thoughts as a pawn?

H8crilA 3y ago

It's pretty clear, no? Ukrainians seek the destruction of Russia as the political system that we know today, Taiwanese seek maintaining the status quo.

Bronze_Colossus 3y ago
Can't say I can speak for Ukraine and Taiwan as you do but I would imagine Taiwan wouldn't want a status qou with missiles striking Taipei on an almost daily basis.
- H8crilA 3y ago
  No missiles are striking Taipei. "Keep status quo" means keep everything as it is now. It might be short-sighted, but opinion polling and foreign policy are more or less clear on this point.
  - simonh 3y ago
    I think Taiwanese are being pretty long sighted. Sentiment has been steadily shifting in favour of eventual full independence for a long time, but the consensus is still clearly to defer it, perhaps indefinitely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement#Opinion_polls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement#O... I also reject the characterisation of Ukraine or Taiwan as chess pieces. In both cases the western policy is not to push either country towards this or that decision, or this or that status. The policy is to support the self determination of Ukrainians and Taiwanese respectively. The trigger for the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine was not any statement or decision made in the west, it was the policies of the Ukrainian parliament supported by popular demonstrations of ordinary Ukrainians in Kyiv. Likewise China isn't concerned about any US inciting action in respect of Taiwan, it's worried about Taiwan itself choosing to declare independence.
    - tw1984 3y ago
      > The policy is to support the self determination of Ukrainians and Taiwanese respectively. Self determination? I thought people of Crimea and Catalan enjoy the same rights. You seem to be comfortable for dual standard western policies here.
      - simonh 3y ago
        In the referendum on Ukrainian independence in the 90s every single oblast voted for Ukrainian independence, including Crimea. In Donetsk and Luhansk it was over 80% with very high turnout. The idea that ethnic Russian means pro Russian is propaganda. It’s just not true. Azov may be unpleasant, but they are undeniably pro Ukrainian, were based in and recruited from Russian speaking areas where under 1% of the population spoke Ukrainian at home. Their web sites used to all be in Russian.
was8309 3y ago
are you saying that Ukrainians want more than to just not be invaded?
- H8crilA 3y ago
  Yes, they want to not be invaded now, not invaded in 5 years, in 10 years, etc. No pieredyshka.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  the gall, am I right? /s