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I honestly would not trust a developer who finds AWS too confusing. At least 80% of the "complexity" on AWS is to keep you from introducing catastrophic securi

I honestly would not trust a developer who finds AWS too confusing. At least 80% of the "complexity" on AWS is to keep you from introducing catastrophic security vulnerabilities. When a developer starts whining they can't figure out how to use an IAM role, it usually means they want to run their entire application as a root user whose SSH key they have sitting in Dropbox. Stay away from my software please.

smartinartin 3y ago
As someone who spent five years as a consultant for two AWS pro partners, I agree with this anecdote. Day one of any gig when I started building with my clients was training on IAM and resource policies.
DangitBobby 3y ago
This is called Stockholm Syndrome and there are people who can help. AWS UI is filled with manual and tedious bullshit to do every day things. It really doesn't have to be this way, making things annoying to configure correctly leads to mistakes or lazy overly broad permissions. If they weren't the first they wouldn't have made it.
- deleted 3y ago
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- justrealist 3y ago
  If you're doing manual tedious bullshit in the AWS UI every day you desperately need to learn some IaaS tools. Terraform isn't hard!
  - DangitBobby 3y ago
    I do use terraform, but not for everything, and neither do you.
    - justrealist 3y ago
      I only use the AWS console to check logs, monitor batch jobs, and check spending. I don't do state configuration in the AWS console.
      - DangitBobby 3y ago
        I'm not sure "don't use the UI" is a valid defense for AWS' UX being terrible.
  - re-thc 3y ago
    > Terraform isn't hard! And in the world of AWS Terraform is still manual and tedious (compared to e.g. CDK).
re-thc 3y ago
> I honestly would not trust a developer who finds AWS too confusing. So you would not trust most developers? Even a lot of Sysadmins i.e. Devops find it confusing. A lot of people just pretend it is fine by being ignorant and not learn any of it. They would follow 1-2 processes that works and never do anything else. You ask them why or how it works and you can't even get a real answer out of it.
- justrealist 3y ago
  > So you would not trust most developers? Obviously not? Most developers are incompetent clowns. I don't feel this is controversial?
kkielhofner 3y ago
You’re not describing a poor developer. You’re describing a poor AWS developer. There are plenty of excellent, security conscience, etc developers who take a look at IAM or any of the other dozens of sticky AWS traps and run away screaming.

smartinartin 3y ago

As someone who spent five years as a consultant for two AWS pro partners, I agree with this anecdote. Day one of any gig when I started building with my clients was training on IAM and resource policies.

DangitBobby 3y ago

This is called Stockholm Syndrome and there are people who can help. AWS UI is filled with manual and tedious bullshit to do every day things. It really doesn't have to be this way, making things annoying to configure correctly leads to mistakes or lazy overly broad permissions. If they weren't the first they wouldn't have made it.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
justrealist 3y ago
If you're doing manual tedious bullshit in the AWS UI every day you desperately need to learn some IaaS tools. Terraform isn't hard!
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  I do use terraform, but not for everything, and neither do you.
  - justrealist 3y ago
    I only use the AWS console to check logs, monitor batch jobs, and check spending. I don't do state configuration in the AWS console.
    - DangitBobby 3y ago
      I'm not sure "don't use the UI" is a valid defense for AWS' UX being terrible.
- re-thc 3y ago
  > Terraform isn't hard! And in the world of AWS Terraform is still manual and tedious (compared to e.g. CDK).

re-thc 3y ago

> I honestly would not trust a developer who finds AWS too confusing. So you would not trust most developers? Even a lot of Sysadmins i.e. Devops find it confusing. A lot of people just pretend it is fine by being ignorant and not learn any of it. They would follow 1-2 processes that works and never do anything else. You ask them why or how it works and you can't even get a real answer out of it.

justrealist 3y ago
> So you would not trust most developers? Obviously not? Most developers are incompetent clowns. I don't feel this is controversial?

kkielhofner 3y ago

You’re not describing a poor developer. You’re describing a poor AWS developer. There are plenty of excellent, security conscience, etc developers who take a look at IAM or any of the other dozens of sticky AWS traps and run away screaming.