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> > Diamond also attempts to explain why European, rather than Chinese, conquerors were the ones who did all the colonizing. This is a simple balkanization the

• swombat 3y ago
  I read Diamond a long time ago but what he was contrasting was that the Chinese Empire was centralised and so when they decided not to expand, that applied to the whole empire, while the Europeans were fragmented so even if Germany and France and England didn't want to send any ships, Portugal and Spain could be convinced to take a risk.
  • peterfirefly 3y ago
    Columbus' 3 small ships were also vastly cheaper than Zheng He's large fleet that had some really large ships in it (even if we dismiss the reported sizes as utterly unrealistic). There's also the fact that the European ships at the time were more robust than the Chinese ships -- because robust ships had been really useful for sailing along the Atlantic coast for trade/fishing.
  • soperj 3y ago
    I also wonder which two islands are considered large out of GB, Ireland, Iceland, Corsica, Sicily... I feel like there's a couple of big islands around China too... Taiwan, some in Japan, Borneo, Philippines for instance. Indigenous Taiwanese settled the whole south Pacific.
• civilized 3y ago
  Nothing in the quoted passage suggests that China does not have different dialects. But it doesn't take a history professor to recognize that China has been under centralized governments of much more comprehensive reach in space and time than Europe ever has, and it is with these periods of unity and stability that Chinese culture most identifies itself.
  • contingencies 3y ago
    This is true now. But before, most people would have been loyal firstly to their area, speak a (quite possibly non-Chinese or even Sino-Tibetan) language or dialect only understood in their area, and at would at most have heard the names of some far-off places. It was not that different to Europe. And that's the relatively Chinese areas. Don't forget also that up until the 20th century large areas of present-day China were demonstrably not Chinese, in that nobody could speak or read Chinese in the area and they had adopted virtually zero Chinese language or culture.
    • civilized 3y ago
      I get where you're coming from. I think what the article should have said was, Europe has geography that favors multiple independent stable nation states, whereas Chinese geography, while it has certainly hosted many competing dynasties over the centuries, does not favor multiple stable nation states. Basically, it's too easy to conquer the whole, so it's been done many times.
      • peterfirefly 3y ago
        Yes, if only the major rivers in China were different... The Yellow River and the Yangtze River systems are so close that it isn't realistic to have long-term control over one and not the other. And controlling both gives you a fantastic base from which to conquer your surroundings.
        • contingencies 3y ago
          Rice, rice, baby. - Vanilla Ice, on Chinese political anthropology. Come 'n try to snatch my crops. - James Scott, on Zomian political anthropology.
• worik 3y ago
  > It's like he knows nothing about China Oh yes. And East Asia is much more than, much bigger than, China. It is a ludicrous infantile argument from a Western POV Jarrad never notices. He is a fish, swim g in a racist sea that does not know what water is
  • FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    It's funny when people are so anti-racist they become racist. I lean really far left, and know I am, so have to guard against bias being on the left. But this entire thread has really lost track of what racism is. So many people are arguing against Jared for being racist, while making racist arguments to justify it. Its getting bit crazy.