4 ms·

Turkey's govt actually has quite a robust IT infrastructure and the Turkish citizens can do pretty much anything through the turkiye.gov.tr portal. It's really

by mrtksn 3y ago

Turkey's govt actually has quite a robust IT infrastructure and the Turkish citizens can do pretty much anything through the turkiye.gov.tr portal. It's really useful, you can even cancel subscriptions to services and utilities from there. You can book appointments for documents services or hospitals, see all your medical history or even heritage records. These leaks keep appearing since many years but their origin is not necessarily a hack of the government infrastructure. The leaks usually occur at election cycles because the address based electorate data is handled and processed by the political parties(which are not exactly IT elites) and gets stolen or leaked. Then there were high profile hacks of large food delivery services or other e-trade platforms. All this resulted in people collecting and merging data from multiple leaks and re-selling those. Edit: At some point, all the lawyers were using this data to track down people relevant to their court cases. They were selling it in CD format back then. Scammers and other criminals probably use this data too.

mghfreud 3y ago
Do the data shared with political parties contain real estate deeds?
- mrtksn 3y ago
  I'm not sure what exactly it contains but all those leaks contain Name, Address and your national identity number(something like social security number). It must also contain the birthplace and date because the last elections there was question over how many refugees got citizenship and the opposition said they checked the birthplaces and the number is not too high. BTW, this data is available for the citizens too during the election cycle so you can check who lives in the same building with you and correct any mistakes. The list of the electorate is also attached at the polls so anyone can check for something fishy. Then in Turkey there's this obsession with companies about collecting as much as info possible about you, so when the food delivery service is hacked the hackers now can easily add your phone number, update your current address by matching your national identity number because for some reason they need to have that info to deliver some kebab. Also, this national identity number is generated through some algorithm which gives away your relatives and thanks to this, the hackers can also build your social graph from the leaks. Here is a repo about that algo: https://github.com/kerematam/akrabatcno https://github.com/kerematam/akrabatcno AFAIK it’s used in “your grandson had an accident and needs emergency surgery, send this much money ASAP” scams.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > update your current address by matching your national identity number because for some reason they need to have that info to deliver some kebab Publuc wifi at O2/millenium dome in london us almost as bad. We really need to make extraneous data a liability and a risk burdain to business.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      In the EU this is already the case. You are only allowed to collect what you need for a specific purpose.
  - paganel 3y ago
    > AFAIK it’s used in “your grandson had an accident and needs emergency surgery, send this much money ASAP” scams. Sad to hear that that scam is also used in Turkey, some very low and despicable people also use it here, in Romania, targeting elderly people, and it’s really vile. I explicitly warned my parents not to fall for it in case someone calls them.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    > this data is available for the citizens too during the election cycle so you can check who lives in the same building with you and correct any mistakes. Why are they crowdsourcing a task that is a basic bureaucratic process in any state? I mean, is Turkey a state that doesn't know who its citizens are and where they live?
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      It's primary function is to prevent election fraud. In Turkey, elections are a serious business with participation rate above 85% and people are meticulous about the process. Also, in Turkey the address registration is self declaration based and the government doesn't actually check if you live there. So theoretically, it can be possible for a political party to arrange it's voters distribution in such a way that it is advantageous for them. The idea is that citizens should be able to check against such things.
jimmygrapes 3y ago
Every time I try to search for a phone number (Bing/ddg) I get pages and pages of clearly auto generated fake names associated with numbers, all hosted on that same Turkish government portal. I don't know why.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  Interesting, Are you sure it’s turkiye.gov.tr?
  - jimmygrapes 3y ago
    Not entirely sure, no. Happens on work PC using Chrome (with uBlock Origin and most lists activatsd), but not at all on phone using Firefox, despite identical searches just tested now. I don't know enough about how this works to say much more.
- emmelaich 3y ago
  I get similar -- see my comment. But never gov.tr
- mysterypie 3y ago
  Does anyone know the purpose served by those reverse phone number search sites that list hundreds of thousands of fake names and fake addresses?
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    The purpose is to serve ads and make money. They can do that because people will search for unknown numbers and names.
    - mysterypie 3y ago
      When these fake name/number sites first appeared about 5-8 years ago, they didn't have any ads or even outgoing links. (I looked without an ad blocker.) Ads might be the explanation for many of them today, but I don't think it's the original or sole reason. Though I suppose it may have begun as a proof of concept without ads to gauge the traffic, then ads got added years later. I've read speculation that they were started by telephone spammers to poison the utility of those who-called-me websites that highlighted spammers' phone numbers. I don't think that's the real reason either. It sounds too cute and clever for spammers. (As an aside: nowadays those services are useless since spammers can so easily fake the caller-ID.) I'm still thinking that there is an interesting story for the original purpose.
hachiroku 3y ago
[dead]
RadixDLT 3y ago
"You can book appointments for documents services or hospitals, see all your medical history or even heritage records" you must be crazy if you think this is a good idea
- mrtksn 3y ago
  It’s very convenient, one of the perks of a totalitarian government with sound IT infrastructure.
  - can16358p 3y ago
    I agree that it's very convenient and I use it myself too: much better than going into crowded offices with bureocracy etc. On the other hand, in case of a breach/hack, it becomes a serious problem.
- aydgn 3y ago
  why do you think it is a bad idea?
- finnx 3y ago
  Turkey has an universal healthcare system, government has to have all that info anyways. You have option to hide specific items from your medical history so not even your doctors can see them. Every access to your records by your doctors are also logged and reported.
dizhn 3y ago
It is a bit premature to declare this leak "more of the same" because I am hearing people's medical records are out in this one. That would point to a new, probably wider leak.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  That would be interesting, any links to reports about wider than the "usual" leaks?
  - terminalcommand 3y ago
    Please read the article linked, they claim they have land registry records as well :/.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      They claim things but the sources are not of good quality. The screenshots I've seen were the usual data: Name, address and phone number.
      - dizhn 3y ago
        That might be because some interface(s) are supposed to show something like demo data when you enter an ID number. They want a membership for more. But this is speculation. I am sure we'll find out in a few days when it's already forgotten.
  - dizhn 3y ago
    A few anectodal things from ekşisözlük claiming people were able to look up the medicines they are taking. Nothing conclusive and I didn't really have the chance to do a deep dive with my current bandwith. The files are supposed to be around 64GB.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      Do you have a link to the files? I want to check this out.
terminalcommand 3y ago
They claim they have land registry records as well. Those are not part of the election database that was leaked eons ago. Your comment is not accurate.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  They claim things but the screenshots I've seen did not have any of those. check this: https://eksisozluk1923.com/img/bei0vtuj https://eksisozluk1923.com/img/bei0vtuj It's the usual stuff: id number, name, birthday, address, phone. Then they have the "relatives", which is deductible from the id number. Then you have some promotional materials advertising the sale of additional data but I have not seen anyone confirming it.

by mrtksn 3y ago

mghfreud 3y ago

Do the data shared with political parties contain real estate deeds?

mrtksn 3y ago
I'm not sure what exactly it contains but all those leaks contain Name, Address and your national identity number(something like social security number). It must also contain the birthplace and date because the last elections there was question over how many refugees got citizenship and the opposition said they checked the birthplaces and the number is not too high. BTW, this data is available for the citizens too during the election cycle so you can check who lives in the same building with you and correct any mistakes. The list of the electorate is also attached at the polls so anyone can check for something fishy. Then in Turkey there's this obsession with companies about collecting as much as info possible about you, so when the food delivery service is hacked the hackers now can easily add your phone number, update your current address by matching your national identity number because for some reason they need to have that info to deliver some kebab. Also, this national identity number is generated through some algorithm which gives away your relatives and thanks to this, the hackers can also build your social graph from the leaks. Here is a repo about that algo: https://github.com/kerematam/akrabatcno https://github.com/kerematam/akrabatcno AFAIK it’s used in “your grandson had an accident and needs emergency surgery, send this much money ASAP” scams.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > update your current address by matching your national identity number because for some reason they need to have that info to deliver some kebab Publuc wifi at O2/millenium dome in london us almost as bad. We really need to make extraneous data a liability and a risk burdain to business.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    In the EU this is already the case. You are only allowed to collect what you need for a specific purpose.
- paganel 3y ago
  > AFAIK it’s used in “your grandson had an accident and needs emergency surgery, send this much money ASAP” scams. Sad to hear that that scam is also used in Turkey, some very low and despicable people also use it here, in Romania, targeting elderly people, and it’s really vile. I explicitly warned my parents not to fall for it in case someone calls them.
- pmontra 3y ago
  > this data is available for the citizens too during the election cycle so you can check who lives in the same building with you and correct any mistakes. Why are they crowdsourcing a task that is a basic bureaucratic process in any state? I mean, is Turkey a state that doesn't know who its citizens are and where they live?
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    It's primary function is to prevent election fraud. In Turkey, elections are a serious business with participation rate above 85% and people are meticulous about the process. Also, in Turkey the address registration is self declaration based and the government doesn't actually check if you live there. So theoretically, it can be possible for a political party to arrange it's voters distribution in such a way that it is advantageous for them. The idea is that citizens should be able to check against such things.

jimmygrapes 3y ago

Every time I try to search for a phone number (Bing/ddg) I get pages and pages of clearly auto generated fake names associated with numbers, all hosted on that same Turkish government portal. I don't know why.

mrtksn 3y ago
Interesting, Are you sure it’s turkiye.gov.tr?
- jimmygrapes 3y ago
  Not entirely sure, no. Happens on work PC using Chrome (with uBlock Origin and most lists activatsd), but not at all on phone using Firefox, despite identical searches just tested now. I don't know enough about how this works to say much more.
emmelaich 3y ago
I get similar -- see my comment. But never gov.tr
mysterypie 3y ago
Does anyone know the purpose served by those reverse phone number search sites that list hundreds of thousands of fake names and fake addresses?
- mrtksn 3y ago
  The purpose is to serve ads and make money. They can do that because people will search for unknown numbers and names.
  - mysterypie 3y ago
    When these fake name/number sites first appeared about 5-8 years ago, they didn't have any ads or even outgoing links. (I looked without an ad blocker.) Ads might be the explanation for many of them today, but I don't think it's the original or sole reason. Though I suppose it may have begun as a proof of concept without ads to gauge the traffic, then ads got added years later. I've read speculation that they were started by telephone spammers to poison the utility of those who-called-me websites that highlighted spammers' phone numbers. I don't think that's the real reason either. It sounds too cute and clever for spammers. (As an aside: nowadays those services are useless since spammers can so easily fake the caller-ID.) I'm still thinking that there is an interesting story for the original purpose.

hachiroku 3y ago

[dead]

RadixDLT 3y ago

"You can book appointments for documents services or hospitals, see all your medical history or even heritage records" you must be crazy if you think this is a good idea

mrtksn 3y ago
It’s very convenient, one of the perks of a totalitarian government with sound IT infrastructure.
- can16358p 3y ago
  I agree that it's very convenient and I use it myself too: much better than going into crowded offices with bureocracy etc. On the other hand, in case of a breach/hack, it becomes a serious problem.
aydgn 3y ago
why do you think it is a bad idea?
finnx 3y ago
Turkey has an universal healthcare system, government has to have all that info anyways. You have option to hide specific items from your medical history so not even your doctors can see them. Every access to your records by your doctors are also logged and reported.

dizhn 3y ago

It is a bit premature to declare this leak "more of the same" because I am hearing people's medical records are out in this one. That would point to a new, probably wider leak.

mrtksn 3y ago
That would be interesting, any links to reports about wider than the "usual" leaks?
- terminalcommand 3y ago
  Please read the article linked, they claim they have land registry records as well :/.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    They claim things but the sources are not of good quality. The screenshots I've seen were the usual data: Name, address and phone number.
    - dizhn 3y ago
      That might be because some interface(s) are supposed to show something like demo data when you enter an ID number. They want a membership for more. But this is speculation. I am sure we'll find out in a few days when it's already forgotten.
- dizhn 3y ago
  A few anectodal things from ekşisözlük claiming people were able to look up the medicines they are taking. Nothing conclusive and I didn't really have the chance to do a deep dive with my current bandwith. The files are supposed to be around 64GB.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    Do you have a link to the files? I want to check this out.

terminalcommand 3y ago

They claim they have land registry records as well. Those are not part of the election database that was leaked eons ago. Your comment is not accurate.

mrtksn 3y ago
They claim things but the screenshots I've seen did not have any of those. check this: https://eksisozluk1923.com/img/bei0vtuj https://eksisozluk1923.com/img/bei0vtuj It's the usual stuff: id number, name, birthday, address, phone. Then they have the "relatives", which is deductible from the id number. Then you have some promotional materials advertising the sale of additional data but I have not seen anyone confirming it.