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A Famous Argument Against Free Will Has Been Debunked(2019)

13 points by dmbche 3y ago

dmbche 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484321 Prior discussion - I wasn't aware and thought it was pertinent to share.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
> “Given the issue is so fundamentally important to our view of who we are, a claim that our free will is illusory should be based on fairly direct evidence,” he wrote in a 2004 book. “Such evidence is not available.” What does “evidence” even mean in a world with no free will. If there is no free will, there really is no such thing as arguments or evidence.
dangitnotagain 3y ago
Looks like the prior discussion wash shut down (@80?) A wide range of discourse, a beloved topic. It is not that will cannot be coopted, or controlled, or predictable based on common patterns, it is that will is arbitrarily available at the discretion its possessor that makes it “free.” Will, is the determinate resolve (of our “potential of being”). Will, the determination of resolve. That you may exercise your determination at your discretion is your free will. That you may be under some other influence is a psycho-intellectual complexity that is each’s lot to resolve, those who would be “masters” of their own. As an aside, determinism in general fails by lack of account (always an encompassing scope of interceding unknown variance), and decay (it is falling apart consistent only by eventuality.)
kahnclusions 3y ago
I’m a fan of Sabine Hossenfelder’s viewpoint on free will. Our universe, to the best of our knowledge, follows deterministic laws combined with random quantum jumps. Being “random” doesn’t imply that there’s any free will, only that what happens has randomness and you can’t fully predict what comes next. Our appearance of free will is just an emergent property of the macroscopic system. But if the underlying system is “deterministic but random”, then the macro system must be as well.
- Dracophoenix 3y ago
  Her claim reads like a reformulation of the Epicurean Swerve.
flangola7 3y ago
This isn't convincing. Free will requires an effect to manifest without an originating action. "Debunked", please.
mgh2 3y ago
No sure: https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale-4fecf8095812 https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

13 points by dmbche 3y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484321 Prior discussion - I wasn't aware and thought it was pertinent to share.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

> “Given the issue is so fundamentally important to our view of who we are, a claim that our free will is illusory should be based on fairly direct evidence,” he wrote in a 2004 book. “Such evidence is not available.” What does “evidence” even mean in a world with no free will. If there is no free will, there really is no such thing as arguments or evidence.

dangitnotagain 3y ago

Looks like the prior discussion wash shut down (@80?) A wide range of discourse, a beloved topic. It is not that will cannot be coopted, or controlled, or predictable based on common patterns, it is that will is arbitrarily available at the discretion its possessor that makes it “free.” Will, is the determinate resolve (of our “potential of being”). Will, the determination of resolve. That you may exercise your determination at your discretion is your free will. That you may be under some other influence is a psycho-intellectual complexity that is each’s lot to resolve, those who would be “masters” of their own. As an aside, determinism in general fails by lack of account (always an encompassing scope of interceding unknown variance), and decay (it is falling apart consistent only by eventuality.)

kahnclusions 3y ago

I’m a fan of Sabine Hossenfelder’s viewpoint on free will. Our universe, to the best of our knowledge, follows deterministic laws combined with random quantum jumps. Being “random” doesn’t imply that there’s any free will, only that what happens has randomness and you can’t fully predict what comes next. Our appearance of free will is just an emergent property of the macroscopic system. But if the underlying system is “deterministic but random”, then the macro system must be as well.

Dracophoenix 3y ago
Her claim reads like a reformulation of the Epicurean Swerve.

flangola7 3y ago

This isn't convincing. Free will requires an effect to manifest without an originating action. "Debunked", please.

mgh2 3y ago

No sure: https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale-4fecf8095812 https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...