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In general I would agree, but the only reason the recordings were made public was because Reddit was straight up lying about the Apollo dev. So the recordings w

by kevdev 3y ago

In general I would agree, but the only reason the recordings were made public was because Reddit was straight up lying about the Apollo dev. So the recordings were released to prove that the Apollo dev was right.

riku_iki 3y ago
> Reddit was straight up lying this part is up to debate. I would also consider "joke" with $10m sticker to go away quiet as a threat, which looks like didn't go through and apollo dev backed up.
- Timon3 3y ago
  The recording contains the Apollo dev explaining that it wasn't a threat, and spez acknowledging it as such. To other people spez still says he was threatened. How is that anything but a lie?
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    Yes, this part is in my opinion: threat didn't go through, not accepted, reddit contact explicitly called it, and apollo dev is backing up
    - Timon3 3y ago
      Okay. So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat, but he felt threatened, so it's okay for him to tell everyone the Apollo dev threatened him?
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        > So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat its regular bs sugar coating, like you know someone is cheating, and he knows he is cheating but doesn't admit, but you don't have proof and you say "oh it was miscommunication" for the sake of continuing cooperation.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Why do you think this is the case? The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this, and spez has not published anything that would prove there was a threat. The audio doesn't sound like what you're describing, it sounds like what the Apollo dev is describing.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this looks like we are in disagreement about this part.
        Timon3 3y ago
        I'll quote directly from the audio (https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-31-end.m4a https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-... starting around 2:18): > Apollo dev: How did you take that, sorry? Could you elaborate? > spez: Oh, like, cause you were like "hey, if you want this, if you want this to go away, like [unintelligeble]..." > Apollo dev: Oh, I said if you want Apollo to go quiet, like I would say it's quite loud in terms of its API use..." > spez: Oh, okay, got it. Got it, sorry. That's a complete misinterpretation on my part. I apologize immediately [...] Would you expect spez to still consider it a threat given both the literal content of what he says, and the tone it was said in? I see no way your interpretation makes sense.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        I read this very carefully several times, and there is context which you decided not to quote, what is your point? Update on your updated comment: > and the tone it was said in? I see no way your interpretation makes sense. Looks like we are again in disagreement about this.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Could you explicitly state the context you believe I decided not to quote? Timestamps are enough.
  - kats 3y ago
    If he was joking then why would he still be asking for reddit to buy Apollo? Yesterday he wrote, > Why doesn't Reddit just buy Apollo and other third-party apps? > This was a very common comment across the topics: "If Apollo has an apparent opportunity cost of $20 million per year, why not just buy them and other third-party apps, as they did with Alien Blue?" > I believe it's a fair question. If these apps apparently cost so much, an easy solution that would likely make everyone happy would be to simply buy these apps out. So I brought that up to them during a call on May 31st where I was suggesting a variety of potential solutions And he linked to a comment, https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/jme726n/?context=3&utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=apolloapp&utm_content=t3_144f6xm https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_w...
    - Timon3 3y ago
      I don't care whether he is joking, I care whether he is making a threat or not. He did not make a threat. spez understood him as saying "if you want this discussion and situation to go away quietly, pay me this". The Apollo dev was asking "if you're having these costs, why not just pay me half that and have the app quiet down?". One is a threat (pay me or XYZ will happen), the other is a legitimate question.
      - kats 3y ago
        No, he clearly was. I don't know how someone could think otherwise. He said "I could make it really easy on you", "we can both skip off into the sunset", "Bob's your uncle", "And have Apollo quiet down". He just backed up at the end I think because they're somewhat scared nerds and they don't like that level of confrontation. But nobody would go into a business meeting and just say that accidentally. You wouldn't even do that at a weekly meeting with your own team members, much less talking to the CEO of a decent sized company and asking to be acquired. And he actually carried out the threat, he helped make one of reddit's biggest messes (although mostly they did to themselves.)
        Timon3 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by kevdev 3y ago

riku_iki 3y ago

> Reddit was straight up lying this part is up to debate. I would also consider "joke" with $10m sticker to go away quiet as a threat, which looks like didn't go through and apollo dev backed up.

Timon3 3y ago
The recording contains the Apollo dev explaining that it wasn't a threat, and spez acknowledging it as such. To other people spez still says he was threatened. How is that anything but a lie?
- riku_iki 3y ago
  Yes, this part is in my opinion: threat didn't go through, not accepted, reddit contact explicitly called it, and apollo dev is backing up
  - Timon3 3y ago
    Okay. So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat, but he felt threatened, so it's okay for him to tell everyone the Apollo dev threatened him?
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      > So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat its regular bs sugar coating, like you know someone is cheating, and he knows he is cheating but doesn't admit, but you don't have proof and you say "oh it was miscommunication" for the sake of continuing cooperation.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        Why do you think this is the case? The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this, and spez has not published anything that would prove there was a threat. The audio doesn't sound like what you're describing, it sounds like what the Apollo dev is describing.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this looks like we are in disagreement about this part.
        Timon3 3y ago
        I'll quote directly from the audio (https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-31-end.m4a https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-... starting around 2:18): > Apollo dev: How did you take that, sorry? Could you elaborate? > spez: Oh, like, cause you were like "hey, if you want this, if you want this to go away, like [unintelligeble]..." > Apollo dev: Oh, I said if you want Apollo to go quiet, like I would say it's quite loud in terms of its API use..." > spez: Oh, okay, got it. Got it, sorry. That's a complete misinterpretation on my part. I apologize immediately [...] Would you expect spez to still consider it a threat given both the literal content of what he says, and the tone it was said in? I see no way your interpretation makes sense.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        I read this very carefully several times, and there is context which you decided not to quote, what is your point? Update on your updated comment: > and the tone it was said in? I see no way your interpretation makes sense. Looks like we are again in disagreement about this.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Could you explicitly state the context you believe I decided not to quote? Timestamps are enough.
- kats 3y ago
  If he was joking then why would he still be asking for reddit to buy Apollo? Yesterday he wrote, > Why doesn't Reddit just buy Apollo and other third-party apps? > This was a very common comment across the topics: "If Apollo has an apparent opportunity cost of $20 million per year, why not just buy them and other third-party apps, as they did with Alien Blue?" > I believe it's a fair question. If these apps apparently cost so much, an easy solution that would likely make everyone happy would be to simply buy these apps out. So I brought that up to them during a call on May 31st where I was suggesting a variety of potential solutions And he linked to a comment, https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/jme726n/?context=3&utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=apolloapp&utm_content=t3_144f6xm https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_w...
  - Timon3 3y ago
    I don't care whether he is joking, I care whether he is making a threat or not. He did not make a threat. spez understood him as saying "if you want this discussion and situation to go away quietly, pay me this". The Apollo dev was asking "if you're having these costs, why not just pay me half that and have the app quiet down?". One is a threat (pay me or XYZ will happen), the other is a legitimate question.
    - kats 3y ago
      No, he clearly was. I don't know how someone could think otherwise. He said "I could make it really easy on you", "we can both skip off into the sunset", "Bob's your uncle", "And have Apollo quiet down". He just backed up at the end I think because they're somewhat scared nerds and they don't like that level of confrontation. But nobody would go into a business meeting and just say that accidentally. You wouldn't even do that at a weekly meeting with your own team members, much less talking to the CEO of a decent sized company and asking to be acquired. And he actually carried out the threat, he helped make one of reddit's biggest messes (although mostly they did to themselves.)
      - Timon3 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]