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It’s incredible to me that VCs willingly invest in a company run by someone with the maturity of a 16-year-old. IMO, investors should ensure that a CEO can pas

It’s incredible to me that VCs willingly invest in a company run by someone with the maturity of a 16-year-old. IMO, investors should ensure that a CEO can pass a 100 level undergrad PR class before handing them millions of dollars.

riku_iki 3y ago
but he is right: secretly recording and publishing business communication is dick move from the point of view of business ethics.
- kevdev 3y ago
  In general I would agree, but the only reason the recordings were made public was because Reddit was straight up lying about the Apollo dev. So the recordings were released to prove that the Apollo dev was right.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    > Reddit was straight up lying this part is up to debate. I would also consider "joke" with $10m sticker to go away quiet as a threat, which looks like didn't go through and apollo dev backed up.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      The recording contains the Apollo dev explaining that it wasn't a threat, and spez acknowledging it as such. To other people spez still says he was threatened. How is that anything but a lie?
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        Yes, this part is in my opinion: threat didn't go through, not accepted, reddit contact explicitly called it, and apollo dev is backing up
        Timon3 3y ago
        Okay. So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat, but he felt threatened, so it's okay for him to tell everyone the Apollo dev threatened him?
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat its regular bs sugar coating, like you know someone is cheating, and he knows he is cheating but doesn't admit, but you don't have proof and you say "oh it was miscommunication" for the sake of continuing cooperation.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Why do you think this is the case? The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this, and spez has not published anything that would prove there was a threat. The audio doesn't sound like what you're describing, it sounds like what the Apollo dev is describing.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this looks like we are in disagreement about this part.
        Timon3 3y ago
        I'll quote directly from the audio (https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-31-end.m4a https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-... starting around 2:18): > Apollo dev: How did you take that, sorry? Could you elaborate? > spez: Oh, like, cause you were like "hey, if you want this, if you want this to go away, like [unintelligeble]..." > Apollo dev: Oh, I said if you want Apollo to go quiet, like I would say it's quite loud in terms of its API use..." > spez: Oh, okay, got it. Got it, sorry. That's a complete misinterpretation on my part. I apologize immediately [...] Would you expect spez to still consider it a threat given both the literal content of what he says, and the tone it was said in? I see no way your interpretation makes sense.
      - kats 3y ago
        If he was joking then why would he still be asking for reddit to buy Apollo? Yesterday he wrote, > Why doesn't Reddit just buy Apollo and other third-party apps? > This was a very common comment across the topics: "If Apollo has an apparent opportunity cost of $20 million per year, why not just buy them and other third-party apps, as they did with Alien Blue?" > I believe it's a fair question. If these apps apparently cost so much, an easy solution that would likely make everyone happy would be to simply buy these apps out. So I brought that up to them during a call on May 31st where I was suggesting a variety of potential solutions And he linked to a comment, https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/jme726n/?context=3&utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=apolloapp&utm_content=t3_144f6xm https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_w...
        Timon3 3y ago
        I don't care whether he is joking, I care whether he is making a threat or not. He did not make a threat. spez understood him as saying "if you want this discussion and situation to go away quietly, pay me this". The Apollo dev was asking "if you're having these costs, why not just pay me half that and have the app quiet down?". One is a threat (pay me or XYZ will happen), the other is a legitimate question.
        kats 3y ago
        No, he clearly was. I don't know how someone could think otherwise. He said "I could make it really easy on you", "we can both skip off into the sunset", "Bob's your uncle", "And have Apollo quiet down". He just backed up at the end I think because they're somewhat scared nerds and they don't like that level of confrontation. But nobody would go into a business meeting and just say that accidentally. You wouldn't even do that at a weekly meeting with your own team members, much less talking to the CEO of a decent sized company and asking to be acquired. And he actually carried out the threat, he helped make one of reddit's biggest messes (although mostly they did to themselves.)
        Timon3 3y ago
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- angulardragon03 3y ago
  so is blatantly lying about said communication in public when you’re the CEO of a company looking to IPO. Christian only released the recording to dispute the claim from spez that he threatened Reddit with blackmail (quite a serious claim imo)
- Timon3 3y ago
  It's much less of a dick move than publicly defaming a business partner. It's the best way for the defamed to clear the table.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  The US had a whole impeachment relying on that
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    The way the US business environment is, if the little guy in every business deal ISN'T recording everything they can legally get away with, they WILL be taken advantage of.
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      most business negotiations likely will start with nda signed.
- yborg 3y ago
  What sort of move is lying from the point of view of business ethics?
- bengale 3y ago
  In fairness, he only seems to have released it in response to Huffman telling people that he was blackmailing him.
- doix 3y ago
  He was accused of blackmail!? He's lucky he did record, without the recording, people might have believed what spez was saying. I can't imagine doing business with Reddit after their CEO outright lied to try to tarnish another developers reputation.
brucethemoose2 3y ago
Its even more incredible that investors are going to pile into the IPO. ...What are the odds of Reddit being the next Facebook instead of the next MySpace? It has to be astronomically low.
mrguyorama 3y ago
Why should they stop? Asshole immature CEOs still bring in millions a year. If the consuming public refuses to punish you, and the government is busy playing sportsball with women's reproductive health, why would you ever change? CEOs will only stop being giant twats when being a giant twat inevitably leads you to personal ruin.
sorenjan 3y ago
The richest man in the world at the moment wouldn't pass that class.

riku_iki 3y ago

but he is right: secretly recording and publishing business communication is dick move from the point of view of business ethics.

kevdev 3y ago
In general I would agree, but the only reason the recordings were made public was because Reddit was straight up lying about the Apollo dev. So the recordings were released to prove that the Apollo dev was right.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  > Reddit was straight up lying this part is up to debate. I would also consider "joke" with $10m sticker to go away quiet as a threat, which looks like didn't go through and apollo dev backed up.
  - Timon3 3y ago
    The recording contains the Apollo dev explaining that it wasn't a threat, and spez acknowledging it as such. To other people spez still says he was threatened. How is that anything but a lie?
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      Yes, this part is in my opinion: threat didn't go through, not accepted, reddit contact explicitly called it, and apollo dev is backing up
      - Timon3 3y ago
        Okay. So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat, but he felt threatened, so it's okay for him to tell everyone the Apollo dev threatened him?
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > So spez acknowledged in the call that it wasn't a threat its regular bs sugar coating, like you know someone is cheating, and he knows he is cheating but doesn't admit, but you don't have proof and you say "oh it was miscommunication" for the sake of continuing cooperation.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Why do you think this is the case? The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this, and spez has not published anything that would prove there was a threat. The audio doesn't sound like what you're describing, it sounds like what the Apollo dev is describing.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > The audio by the Apollo dev doesn't support this looks like we are in disagreement about this part.
        Timon3 3y ago
        I'll quote directly from the audio (https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-31-end.m4a https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-... starting around 2:18): > Apollo dev: How did you take that, sorry? Could you elaborate? > spez: Oh, like, cause you were like "hey, if you want this, if you want this to go away, like [unintelligeble]..." > Apollo dev: Oh, I said if you want Apollo to go quiet, like I would say it's quite loud in terms of its API use..." > spez: Oh, okay, got it. Got it, sorry. That's a complete misinterpretation on my part. I apologize immediately [...] Would you expect spez to still consider it a threat given both the literal content of what he says, and the tone it was said in? I see no way your interpretation makes sense.
    - kats 3y ago
      If he was joking then why would he still be asking for reddit to buy Apollo? Yesterday he wrote, > Why doesn't Reddit just buy Apollo and other third-party apps? > This was a very common comment across the topics: "If Apollo has an apparent opportunity cost of $20 million per year, why not just buy them and other third-party apps, as they did with Alien Blue?" > I believe it's a fair question. If these apps apparently cost so much, an easy solution that would likely make everyone happy would be to simply buy these apps out. So I brought that up to them during a call on May 31st where I was suggesting a variety of potential solutions And he linked to a comment, https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/jme726n/?context=3&utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=apolloapp&utm_content=t3_144f6xm https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_w...
      - Timon3 3y ago
        I don't care whether he is joking, I care whether he is making a threat or not. He did not make a threat. spez understood him as saying "if you want this discussion and situation to go away quietly, pay me this". The Apollo dev was asking "if you're having these costs, why not just pay me half that and have the app quiet down?". One is a threat (pay me or XYZ will happen), the other is a legitimate question.
        kats 3y ago
        No, he clearly was. I don't know how someone could think otherwise. He said "I could make it really easy on you", "we can both skip off into the sunset", "Bob's your uncle", "And have Apollo quiet down". He just backed up at the end I think because they're somewhat scared nerds and they don't like that level of confrontation. But nobody would go into a business meeting and just say that accidentally. You wouldn't even do that at a weekly meeting with your own team members, much less talking to the CEO of a decent sized company and asking to be acquired. And he actually carried out the threat, he helped make one of reddit's biggest messes (although mostly they did to themselves.)
        Timon3 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
angulardragon03 3y ago
so is blatantly lying about said communication in public when you’re the CEO of a company looking to IPO. Christian only released the recording to dispute the claim from spez that he threatened Reddit with blackmail (quite a serious claim imo)
Timon3 3y ago
It's much less of a dick move than publicly defaming a business partner. It's the best way for the defamed to clear the table.
paulddraper 3y ago
The US had a whole impeachment relying on that
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  The way the US business environment is, if the little guy in every business deal ISN'T recording everything they can legally get away with, they WILL be taken advantage of.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    most business negotiations likely will start with nda signed.
yborg 3y ago
What sort of move is lying from the point of view of business ethics?
bengale 3y ago
In fairness, he only seems to have released it in response to Huffman telling people that he was blackmailing him.
doix 3y ago
He was accused of blackmail!? He's lucky he did record, without the recording, people might have believed what spez was saying. I can't imagine doing business with Reddit after their CEO outright lied to try to tarnish another developers reputation.

brucethemoose2 3y ago

Its even more incredible that investors are going to pile into the IPO. ...What are the odds of Reddit being the next Facebook instead of the next MySpace? It has to be astronomically low.

mrguyorama 3y ago

Why should they stop? Asshole immature CEOs still bring in millions a year. If the consuming public refuses to punish you, and the government is busy playing sportsball with women's reproductive health, why would you ever change? CEOs will only stop being giant twats when being a giant twat inevitably leads you to personal ruin.

sorenjan 3y ago

The richest man in the world at the moment wouldn't pass that class.