5 ms·

Swedish PM: we are now changing our migration policy to the EU's strictest

17 points by telotortium 3y ago

eesmith 3y ago
"debattartikel" means "debate article", yes? So is this a proposal about what the prime minister thinks should change, or is it an actual change? Like, I've had a lifetime of hearing US presidents say all sorts of things they wanted to be true, but which never happened - as Roosevelt called it, a "bully pulpit" ("a terrific platform from which to advocate an agenda" quoting Wikipedia). My reading (thanks Google Translate!) is that's what's going on here. I can't find anything in the English language press, which I think would be the case if this were a new law being enacted.
- tyropita 3y ago
  +1. Also according to some swedish friends, aftonbladet is not a very high quality news service.
  - Nullabillity 3y ago
    Say what you want about them, Kristersson is definitely our PM, and I doubt they would lie about him having been the author of the op-ed.
  - piva00 3y ago
    Aftonbladet may not be a very high quality news service, the article is still real, it's still the words of our PM. As an immigrant who has more-or-less integrated and adapted into Sweden, lived here for nearly a decade, I completely despise this op-ed. The nationalistic way he talks in is something I never expected from Swedish politics, it's a nuanced way to play nationalism but is still shockingly unexpected. Ulf Kristersson sold his soul to become PM, he is on the record barely 5-6 years ago saying he'd never ally himself and his party (M - Moderaterna) with SD, he has broken that to become PM and this is the blow SD wanted: a more nationalistic political discourse. Playing the Swedish language into this just makes me reek. Jag är ledsen för er som röstade in denna regering...
    - sshine 3y ago
      A former Danish prime minister is known for saying Man har et standpunkt til man tager et nyt Or translated You make a standpoint until you make a new one https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_har_et_standpunkt_til_man_tager_et_nyt https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_har_et_standpunkt_til_man_...
- madspindel 3y ago
  Not really. Here in Sweden we are voting on parties, not on presidents. In this case we have a government with people from the parties M, L and KD they are backed by SD and together they have a majority and can do what they want. SD is the next biggest party and they are anti immigrants. To back the government this was part of the Tidö Agreement.
  - halfjoking 3y ago
    So in other countries when tackling immigration, your leader doesn't sign an 'Excecutive Order' that he will build a wall, the most beautiful wall, without the support of nearly anyone else except his rabid base? I'm shocked.
- Nullabillity 3y ago
  > "debattartikel" means "debate article", yes? Yes. > So is this a proposal about what the prime minister thinks should change, or is it an actual change? Kristersson relied on the nazi vote (SD) to become PM, and this is one way to signal to those voters that he's still on their side. > Like, I've had a lifetime of hearing US presidents say all sorts of things they wanted to be true, but which never happened - as Roosevelt called it, a "bully pulpit" ("a terrific platform from which to advocate an agenda" quoting Wikipedia). To continue the US analogy, Trump may not have managed to expell all muslims or made trans healthcare illegal... but he still made things a lot worse for a lot of people.
  - john008 3y ago
    [dead]
- smcin 3y ago
  > "debattartikel" means "debate article", yes? Then I think that's an "op-ed", an opinion piece. So the legislation has not been proposed yet.
nickdothutton 3y ago
It sounds less like they need a new policy and more like they need new politicians. You can’t make a good system out of faulty parts.
TMWNN 3y ago
For context, Sweden has no language, income, employment, or skills requirement <https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Becoming-a-Swedish-citizen/Apply-for-citizenship/Citizenship-for-adults.html https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/...> for obtaining citizenship. In completely unrelated news, Arabic is now the second most spoken language in Sweden <https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/tribune/article_popover.aspx?guid=7047637a-c5f5-4297-9afa-a273dd443a9a https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/tribune/article_po...>.
- eesmith 3y ago
  You're right - language use is not related to citizenship. Refugees deserve human rights. Since Sweden extended humanitarian support for a lot of refugees from the Middle East, that surely makes sense that Arabic languages are common. My birth town of Miami accepted a lot of refugees from Castro's Cuba. My friends and classmates grew up in Spanish-speaking households, and I remember getting new classmates who didn't speak any English when they started. They learned. While native Spanish speakers, my classmates generally preferred speaking English. As usual with immigrants, their kids - the second generation - are being raised in primarily English-speaking homes. Just like how my g'grandparents spoke Norwegian, my grandmother was force to learn it as a kid, and my father learned a few phrases, passing down only one to me. And if I read your link correctly, seemingly just like how the grandchildren of Finnish immigrants in the 1960s are learning Swedish, not Finnish. OTOH, their Cuban-born parents often didn't learn much English. They had a family to support, and needed to work. So Miami ended up a very Spanish speaking town, even though there is an English language requirement for US citizenship. If you really think, as I do, that it's unrelated, why mention it at all?
  - danielrpa 3y ago
    I'm a Latin American immigrant. When coming to the US, I decided to fully integrate myself in the culture: attain a high proficiency level in English, US history and culture, marry a native and raise my child in the local culture. I believe that if you are moving to a new country, you are deciding to an extent leave your old country behind and start a new journey helping build your adoptive country. When looking at other Latin American immigrants, I tend to see a strong desire to do the same. Latin Americans often join the US armed forces, become patriotic and even conservative Americans. In particular with Cuban immigrants, there is hatred towards some of the original values (communist/revolutionary Cuba) and a strong embrace of the new world. While you can always find examples to the contrary, I believe that Latin American immigrants in the US have done a terrific job at integrating, perhaps because of our cultural and religious values being already somewhat compatible with the US. This is not the same for all other immigrant cultures. I don't want to point fingers to not start flame wars. However, I've seen communities of different cultures refusing to mix with locals: they will not marry locals in general for religious and sometimes even racial reasons. For them, the US is just a convenient location with Costcos and Targets, but they often despise our cultural roots and don't even bother to learn the culture or language. Their children are of course better integrated, but their community still frowns upon departing their culture circle. We Latin Americans still, of course, stay around our community and speak our native language with people sharing our cultural heritage. We still like "our" food. But when you talk to people in the community, they are complaining about how things are bad in Latin America and how much better they are in the US. In some other cultures, it's the opposite; they complain about how things are bad in the US, and how much better they were back home!

17 points by telotortium 3y ago

"debattartikel" means "debate article", yes? So is this a proposal about what the prime minister thinks should change, or is it an actual change? Like, I've had a lifetime of hearing US presidents say all sorts of things they wanted to be true, but which never happened - as Roosevelt called it, a "bully pulpit" ("a terrific platform from which to advocate an agenda" quoting Wikipedia). My reading (thanks Google Translate!) is that's what's going on here. I can't find anything in the English language press, which I think would be the case if this were a new law being enacted.

tyropita 3y ago
+1. Also according to some swedish friends, aftonbladet is not a very high quality news service.
- Nullabillity 3y ago
  Say what you want about them, Kristersson is definitely our PM, and I doubt they would lie about him having been the author of the op-ed.
- piva00 3y ago
  Aftonbladet may not be a very high quality news service, the article is still real, it's still the words of our PM. As an immigrant who has more-or-less integrated and adapted into Sweden, lived here for nearly a decade, I completely despise this op-ed. The nationalistic way he talks in is something I never expected from Swedish politics, it's a nuanced way to play nationalism but is still shockingly unexpected. Ulf Kristersson sold his soul to become PM, he is on the record barely 5-6 years ago saying he'd never ally himself and his party (M - Moderaterna) with SD, he has broken that to become PM and this is the blow SD wanted: a more nationalistic political discourse. Playing the Swedish language into this just makes me reek. Jag är ledsen för er som röstade in denna regering...
  - sshine 3y ago
    A former Danish prime minister is known for saying Man har et standpunkt til man tager et nyt Or translated You make a standpoint until you make a new one https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_har_et_standpunkt_til_man_tager_et_nyt https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_har_et_standpunkt_til_man_...
madspindel 3y ago
Not really. Here in Sweden we are voting on parties, not on presidents. In this case we have a government with people from the parties M, L and KD they are backed by SD and together they have a majority and can do what they want. SD is the next biggest party and they are anti immigrants. To back the government this was part of the Tidö Agreement.
- halfjoking 3y ago
  So in other countries when tackling immigration, your leader doesn't sign an 'Excecutive Order' that he will build a wall, the most beautiful wall, without the support of nearly anyone else except his rabid base? I'm shocked.
Nullabillity 3y ago
> "debattartikel" means "debate article", yes? Yes. > So is this a proposal about what the prime minister thinks should change, or is it an actual change? Kristersson relied on the nazi vote (SD) to become PM, and this is one way to signal to those voters that he's still on their side. > Like, I've had a lifetime of hearing US presidents say all sorts of things they wanted to be true, but which never happened - as Roosevelt called it, a "bully pulpit" ("a terrific platform from which to advocate an agenda" quoting Wikipedia). To continue the US analogy, Trump may not have managed to expell all muslims or made trans healthcare illegal... but he still made things a lot worse for a lot of people.
- john008 3y ago
  [dead]
smcin 3y ago
> "debattartikel" means "debate article", yes? Then I think that's an "op-ed", an opinion piece. So the legislation has not been proposed yet.

nickdothutton 3y ago

It sounds less like they need a new policy and more like they need new politicians. You can’t make a good system out of faulty parts.

TMWNN 3y ago

For context, Sweden has no language, income, employment, or skills requirement <https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Becoming-a-Swedish-citizen/Apply-for-citizenship/Citizenship-for-adults.html https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/...> for obtaining citizenship. In completely unrelated news, Arabic is now the second most spoken language in Sweden <https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/tribune/article_popover.aspx?guid=7047637a-c5f5-4297-9afa-a273dd443a9a https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/tribune/article_po...>.

eesmith 3y ago
You're right - language use is not related to citizenship. Refugees deserve human rights. Since Sweden extended humanitarian support for a lot of refugees from the Middle East, that surely makes sense that Arabic languages are common. My birth town of Miami accepted a lot of refugees from Castro's Cuba. My friends and classmates grew up in Spanish-speaking households, and I remember getting new classmates who didn't speak any English when they started. They learned. While native Spanish speakers, my classmates generally preferred speaking English. As usual with immigrants, their kids - the second generation - are being raised in primarily English-speaking homes. Just like how my g'grandparents spoke Norwegian, my grandmother was force to learn it as a kid, and my father learned a few phrases, passing down only one to me. And if I read your link correctly, seemingly just like how the grandchildren of Finnish immigrants in the 1960s are learning Swedish, not Finnish. OTOH, their Cuban-born parents often didn't learn much English. They had a family to support, and needed to work. So Miami ended up a very Spanish speaking town, even though there is an English language requirement for US citizenship. If you really think, as I do, that it's unrelated, why mention it at all?
- danielrpa 3y ago
  I'm a Latin American immigrant. When coming to the US, I decided to fully integrate myself in the culture: attain a high proficiency level in English, US history and culture, marry a native and raise my child in the local culture. I believe that if you are moving to a new country, you are deciding to an extent leave your old country behind and start a new journey helping build your adoptive country. When looking at other Latin American immigrants, I tend to see a strong desire to do the same. Latin Americans often join the US armed forces, become patriotic and even conservative Americans. In particular with Cuban immigrants, there is hatred towards some of the original values (communist/revolutionary Cuba) and a strong embrace of the new world. While you can always find examples to the contrary, I believe that Latin American immigrants in the US have done a terrific job at integrating, perhaps because of our cultural and religious values being already somewhat compatible with the US. This is not the same for all other immigrant cultures. I don't want to point fingers to not start flame wars. However, I've seen communities of different cultures refusing to mix with locals: they will not marry locals in general for religious and sometimes even racial reasons. For them, the US is just a convenient location with Costcos and Targets, but they often despise our cultural roots and don't even bother to learn the culture or language. Their children are of course better integrated, but their community still frowns upon departing their culture circle. We Latin Americans still, of course, stay around our community and speak our native language with people sharing our cultural heritage. We still like "our" food. But when you talk to people in the community, they are complaining about how things are bad in Latin America and how much better they are in the US. In some other cultures, it's the opposite; they complain about how things are bad in the US, and how much better they were back home!