4 ms·

Warhammer is so much fun but the pieces are just so ridiculously expensive. Especially Warhammer Fantasy which has races that can require a hundred individual u

by comrh 3y ago

Warhammer is so much fun but the pieces are just so ridiculously expensive. Especially Warhammer Fantasy which has races that can require a hundred individual units to field a 2000 point army.

belfalas 3y ago
It's definitely like Magic the Gathering - a rich man's game.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  At least it's clear from the get go that Minifig based games are not just pay to win, but pay to even come to the table. Magic tries to pretend that it isn't gacha with clear metas that cost a thousand bucks.
  - Tade0 3y ago
    Some find their own minigame in this. One good friend of mine is apparently in it to produce the most powerful deck at the lowest cost - usually via second-hand purchases. Others just fish for foil cards, which apparently are measurably heavier than normal ones and with a precision scale it's possible to tell whether a booster has one. I'm not a collector, so I stopped buying them when power creep rendered a second deck of mine useless already.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      There's playable game in playing what essentially amounts to no longer "legal" rule sets, but that requires finding a niche partner in an already niche game.
  - twic 3y ago
    Miniatures games aren't really play-to-win, though. You have to spend (lots of) money to be able to play, but you can't spend arbitrary further money to increase your chance of winning. The size of your army is limited by the points cost of the units, and the composition is limited by various rules, so you can't just buy twenty super-duper battle robots and steamroller everyone. I don't think it's even reliable that the point-for-point best units are the most financially expensive ones. With 40k, i believe the most expensive stuff is often obscure Forge World models that usually have terrible rules.
- ycombinete 3y ago
  Depends what you mean by rich, and what you mean by MTG. There are so many ways to play the game, many of them without spending too much. For example, my friends and I play Pauper [0]. A format where only common cards are allowed. You can get a strong on-meta deck for between USD24-USD90. It has a huge card pool going almost back to the beginning, so you can build really nice decks! Even in USD1000 formats like Modern or Pioneer. There are "cheaper" decks like 8-Whack, or Mono-blue Tempo respectively. I think around USD100. [0]https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/pauper#paper https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/pauper#paper
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- sumtechguy 3y ago
  That was one thing I was thinking 3d printing would gut with respect to that type of gaming. But from what I have seen it did not really stop and the 3d printed stuff is looked down upon.
  - comrh 3y ago
    Games Workshop is famously extremely litigious
  - kergonath 3y ago
    3D printing will get there but at the moment it is much worse than GW’s plastic on basically every metric. They look great in renders but are very disappointing in person. Details are not that sharp, things get warped, printing leaves a lot of imperfections that are often difficult to hide or remove. GW’s minis are expensive but they are good, fantastic even. They don’t have a monopoly, several other companies also sell very good minis, but injection moulding is expensive so scale matters here. So sure, printed minis are better than Warhammer minis from 20 years ago, but none come anywhere near the good recent ones. The main thing going for printed minis apart from price is that it’s easier to have different poses and add some variety.
    - ilyt 3y ago
      Even the resin 3D printers ?
      - kergonath 3y ago
        Right now, yes. It’s getting better but without significant work they really are not as smooth with crisp tiny details. It’s going to the right direction, so it might change in the future, though.
  - twic 3y ago
    Lots of people do print. And there are third-party minature makers who compete partly on cost. But only a tiny number of people who play 40k have access to 3D printers. Also, a lot of people play games hosted in GW stores, and i believe GW have a policy that you can only use their minis in their stores.
mattl 3y ago
There are some efforts to remedy this: the new edition will let you pick up a $150 box and that’ll be your force. Yes $150 isn’t cheap but it’s not $1500.
ilyt 3y ago
I'd just get a 3D printer honestly
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Resin printers suitable for printing miniatures use toxic chemicals and produce toxic fumes during use. I wouldn't consider one unless I had a garage or shed, and no children.
Symbiote 3y ago
I was recently introduced to Kill Team, which is a complete game with two "teams", terrain, rules and so on. A team is 6-14 models, sold in one box, so if your friend has the main game the cost to join is just those models; £40 or so. That's comparable to a high quality board game, computer game, Lego set etc.

by comrh 3y ago

Warhammer is so much fun but the pieces are just so ridiculously expensive. Especially Warhammer Fantasy which has races that can require a hundred individual units to field a 2000 point army.

belfalas 3y ago

It's definitely like Magic the Gathering - a rich man's game.

mrguyorama 3y ago
At least it's clear from the get go that Minifig based games are not just pay to win, but pay to even come to the table. Magic tries to pretend that it isn't gacha with clear metas that cost a thousand bucks.
- Tade0 3y ago
  Some find their own minigame in this. One good friend of mine is apparently in it to produce the most powerful deck at the lowest cost - usually via second-hand purchases. Others just fish for foil cards, which apparently are measurably heavier than normal ones and with a precision scale it's possible to tell whether a booster has one. I'm not a collector, so I stopped buying them when power creep rendered a second deck of mine useless already.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    There's playable game in playing what essentially amounts to no longer "legal" rule sets, but that requires finding a niche partner in an already niche game.
- twic 3y ago
  Miniatures games aren't really play-to-win, though. You have to spend (lots of) money to be able to play, but you can't spend arbitrary further money to increase your chance of winning. The size of your army is limited by the points cost of the units, and the composition is limited by various rules, so you can't just buy twenty super-duper battle robots and steamroller everyone. I don't think it's even reliable that the point-for-point best units are the most financially expensive ones. With 40k, i believe the most expensive stuff is often obscure Forge World models that usually have terrible rules.
ycombinete 3y ago
Depends what you mean by rich, and what you mean by MTG. There are so many ways to play the game, many of them without spending too much. For example, my friends and I play Pauper [0]. A format where only common cards are allowed. You can get a strong on-meta deck for between USD24-USD90. It has a huge card pool going almost back to the beginning, so you can build really nice decks! Even in USD1000 formats like Modern or Pioneer. There are "cheaper" decks like 8-Whack, or Mono-blue Tempo respectively. I think around USD100. [0]https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/pauper#paper https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/pauper#paper
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
sumtechguy 3y ago
That was one thing I was thinking 3d printing would gut with respect to that type of gaming. But from what I have seen it did not really stop and the 3d printed stuff is looked down upon.
- comrh 3y ago
  Games Workshop is famously extremely litigious
- kergonath 3y ago
  3D printing will get there but at the moment it is much worse than GW’s plastic on basically every metric. They look great in renders but are very disappointing in person. Details are not that sharp, things get warped, printing leaves a lot of imperfections that are often difficult to hide or remove. GW’s minis are expensive but they are good, fantastic even. They don’t have a monopoly, several other companies also sell very good minis, but injection moulding is expensive so scale matters here. So sure, printed minis are better than Warhammer minis from 20 years ago, but none come anywhere near the good recent ones. The main thing going for printed minis apart from price is that it’s easier to have different poses and add some variety.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    Even the resin 3D printers ?
    - kergonath 3y ago
      Right now, yes. It’s getting better but without significant work they really are not as smooth with crisp tiny details. It’s going to the right direction, so it might change in the future, though.
- twic 3y ago
  Lots of people do print. And there are third-party minature makers who compete partly on cost. But only a tiny number of people who play 40k have access to 3D printers. Also, a lot of people play games hosted in GW stores, and i believe GW have a policy that you can only use their minis in their stores.

mattl 3y ago

There are some efforts to remedy this: the new edition will let you pick up a $150 box and that’ll be your force. Yes $150 isn’t cheap but it’s not $1500.

ilyt 3y ago

I'd just get a 3D printer honestly

Symbiote 3y ago
Resin printers suitable for printing miniatures use toxic chemicals and produce toxic fumes during use. I wouldn't consider one unless I had a garage or shed, and no children.

Symbiote 3y ago

I was recently introduced to Kill Team, which is a complete game with two "teams", terrain, rules and so on. A team is 6-14 models, sold in one box, so if your friend has the main game the cost to join is just those models; £40 or so. That's comparable to a high quality board game, computer game, Lego set etc.