4 ms·

The DEA is not a good source of legal advice. It is legal to grow Papaver somniferum in the United States for garden and seed production purposes.

by cwkoss 3y ago

sidewndr46 3y ago
Not only is the DEA not a source of legal advice in any capacity, they can lie to you if directed to. Monticello stopped growing poppies because they asked their legal counsel and they said "yeah that's a fast track to jail"
- tssva 3y ago
  Monticello contacted, I'm sure through their legal counsel, the Department of Agriculture which indicated growing the poppies in question was legal and the Attorney General of Virginia's office who indicated that the law was contridictary and unclear. This when they then contacted the DEA for an opinion.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    if you're talking about the USDA, it's irrelevant. You might as well ask a cow it's opinion on whether prime rib or sirloin is better. USDA does not prosecute drug crimes. The USDA could also just as easily lie to you if they wanted to.
    - tssva 3y ago
      The USDA does have primary federal law enforcement power for National Forests including drug crimes, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. The FDA not the DEA is the primary regulator and enforcement agency for poppy seeds intended for human consumption. The USDA is the primary regulator of seeds intended for planting. Since the seeds being sold at Monticello were sold with the intended for use in the planting of poppies, when surveying for opinions it seems an appropriate agency to get one from.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Do you have evidence/sources for that? I did some searching and couldn't find any primary sources that said growing Papaver somniferum in the United States is legal. On the contrary, nearly every primary source I found said that it is illegal. The Wikipedia article on the topic says this: > Though "opium poppy and poppy straw" are listed in Schedule II of the United States' Controlled Substances Act, P. somniferum can be grown legally in the United States as a seed crop or ornamental flower. But the source reference to that sentence points to this article, https://web.archive.org/web/20210421041214/http://agsyst.wsu.edu/CulinaryPoppy.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210421041214/http://agsyst.wsu... , which states: > It is legal to grow Papaver somniferum in the United States for garden and seed production purposes; it is illegal to manufacture opium from the poppies. However, that article doesn't seem to back that up with any source material. On the contrary, it directly contradicts one of its own listed sources, https://web.archive.org/web/20210421145024/http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Papaver_somniferum.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210421145024/http://www.hort.p... , which states "As the peony flowered poppy, the opium poppy is widely grown as an ornamental, even here in the US, where it is illegal to grow." That is, as best as I could find, growing Papaver somniferum is still technically illegal in the US, but basically all enforcement agencies have said they're OK with ornamental use. Would love to see any contradictory evidence if someone has it.
- jtode 3y ago
  Weed grower for about ten years here. If you've paid any attention at all to the legal industry, you'll see that there's an endless supply of new "genetics" coming out (99% hype bullshit) and some famous names like "Kush," "Diesel," etc. These are called cultivars, the same species but much like dog breeds, you can select for attributes like potency, flavor, etc. I've never seriously tried to grow opium, but I have had poppies in the garden and I've attempted to slice and get a bit of latex from them, and basically the seeds they sell for gardens are a weak cultivar that is not suitable for opium production. If you look at the Wikipedia page it's got a picture of what appears to be an Afghan farmer collecting latex, and you can tell from the photo that this is a heavy latex-producing breed, very different from what we can grow legitimately here. I'm sure seeds for that cultivar can be acquired fairly easily, but I wouldn't know how.

The DEA is not a good source of legal advice. It is legal to grow Papaver somniferum in the United States for garden and seed production purposes.

by cwkoss 3y ago

The DEA is not a good source of legal advice. It is legal to grow Papaver somniferum in the United States for garden and seed production purposes.

sidewndr46 3y ago

Not only is the DEA not a source of legal advice in any capacity, they can lie to you if directed to. Monticello stopped growing poppies because they asked their legal counsel and they said "yeah that's a fast track to jail"

tssva 3y ago
Monticello contacted, I'm sure through their legal counsel, the Department of Agriculture which indicated growing the poppies in question was legal and the Attorney General of Virginia's office who indicated that the law was contridictary and unclear. This when they then contacted the DEA for an opinion.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  if you're talking about the USDA, it's irrelevant. You might as well ask a cow it's opinion on whether prime rib or sirloin is better. USDA does not prosecute drug crimes. The USDA could also just as easily lie to you if they wanted to.
  - tssva 3y ago
    The USDA does have primary federal law enforcement power for National Forests including drug crimes, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. The FDA not the DEA is the primary regulator and enforcement agency for poppy seeds intended for human consumption. The USDA is the primary regulator of seeds intended for planting. Since the seeds being sold at Monticello were sold with the intended for use in the planting of poppies, when surveying for opinions it seems an appropriate agency to get one from.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

Do you have evidence/sources for that? I did some searching and couldn't find any primary sources that said growing Papaver somniferum in the United States is legal. On the contrary, nearly every primary source I found said that it is illegal. The Wikipedia article on the topic says this: > Though "opium poppy and poppy straw" are listed in Schedule II of the United States' Controlled Substances Act, P. somniferum can be grown legally in the United States as a seed crop or ornamental flower. But the source reference to that sentence points to this article, https://web.archive.org/web/20210421041214/http://agsyst.wsu.edu/CulinaryPoppy.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210421041214/http://agsyst.wsu... , which states: > It is legal to grow Papaver somniferum in the United States for garden and seed production purposes; it is illegal to manufacture opium from the poppies. However, that article doesn't seem to back that up with any source material. On the contrary, it directly contradicts one of its own listed sources, https://web.archive.org/web/20210421145024/http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Papaver_somniferum.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210421145024/http://www.hort.p... , which states "As the peony flowered poppy, the opium poppy is widely grown as an ornamental, even here in the US, where it is illegal to grow." That is, as best as I could find, growing Papaver somniferum is still technically illegal in the US, but basically all enforcement agencies have said they're OK with ornamental use. Would love to see any contradictory evidence if someone has it.

jtode 3y ago
Weed grower for about ten years here. If you've paid any attention at all to the legal industry, you'll see that there's an endless supply of new "genetics" coming out (99% hype bullshit) and some famous names like "Kush," "Diesel," etc. These are called cultivars, the same species but much like dog breeds, you can select for attributes like potency, flavor, etc. I've never seriously tried to grow opium, but I have had poppies in the garden and I've attempted to slice and get a bit of latex from them, and basically the seeds they sell for gardens are a weak cultivar that is not suitable for opium production. If you look at the Wikipedia page it's got a picture of what appears to be an Afghan farmer collecting latex, and you can tell from the photo that this is a heavy latex-producing breed, very different from what we can grow legitimately here. I'm sure seeds for that cultivar can be acquired fairly easily, but I wouldn't know how.