5 ms·

You can't even imagine buying a house in a neighborhood in your city and then having some dentist from Ohio buying the house next to yours and operating it as a

You can't even imagine buying a house in a neighborhood in your city and then having some dentist from Ohio buying the house next to yours and operating it as a 24/7 party house and you have the audacity to question the morality or justification of complainants? Forgive me if I write you off completely as a serious person.

tru3_power 3y ago
If the party house isn’t causing a nuisance who cares? What people decide to do with their property should be their choice.
- wavefunction 3y ago
  Do you think I used the terminology "24/7 party house" to cover properties that are not a nuisance. You're on the list of unserious people as well now.
- Raudius 3y ago
  Real estate owners are already limited to what they can do with their property. How is regulating airbnbs any different from zoning laws?
  - mantas 3y ago
    Usually airbnb is working around zoning laws. The essence of airbnb is to rent out regular apartments in regular apartment buildings. Which are not designed to be hotel-like short term rentals.
- omginternets 3y ago
  Oh, so you do believe in restricting what people can do with their property?
- piva00 3y ago
  The issue is that it becomes a nuisance, a 24/7 party apartment is exactly that in a building: a nuisance. Also, freedom to do whatever you want in your property is not how most of the world operates, if you share a building with others in most countries you have to abide to certain rules. These rules are more commonly disrespected by short-term guests who don't have to care about long-term relationships with neighbours. If it's not a nuisance, then no one would complain, but it eventually becomes a nuisance. As an anecdote: a month ago I stayed a few days (5-7) at a friend's place I was visiting who lives in Lisbon, just on his floor there are 4 AirBnBs (owned by the same person). Not only it was a nuisance with noise for most of the days I was there it was also a nuisance to have drunk British girls banging on your door at 02.00 in the night when they don't remember the fucking apartment they are supposedly going to. My friend mentioned it's not uncommon for that to happen, or to have a gag of people show up to a party in one of the apartments. Other people living in the building have complained to AirBnB, to the police, to the housing association, nothing really happens. This is just one building, in one city suffering the bad sides of tourism, I can't imagine how many of these instances repeat throughout AirBnB-listed properties in similar places...
  - sgu999 3y ago
    In my experience, Lisbon really is the worst case scenario of gentrification and tourism gone absolutely wrong. A fair amount of Portuguese are profiting from it, but I can imagine how much of a burden it is for the ones who don't.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    > These rules are more commonly disrespected by short-term guests So enforce them, it's one five minute zero-interaction phone call to have a cop deal with a noise complaint. I can, and do, throw loud parties at my apartment, stumble through my hallways drunk, and host rowdy out of town friends and no one dares question my ability to live there. Trying to enforce social norms by not allowing "certain kinds of people" to sleep there is grade-a bullshit. Trying to get outcome A by making a rule about B is unfair to everyone who is B but not A and A but not B. This kind of reasoning is why it's so hard to get multi-family housing approved. A nice suburb in my city forced the development of new desperately needed apartment complexes to be on the the border because "less desirable" people live in apartments.
    - piva00 3y ago
      > So enforce them, it's one five minute zero-interaction phone call to have a cop deal with a noise complaint. I can, and do, throw loud parties at my apartment, stumble through my hallways drunk, and host rowdy out of town friends and no one dares question my ability to live there. "Just enforce them" is a non-solution, I mentioned that my anecdote included calling cops and bringing it up with AirBnB and housing association, the apartments are still listed, as they've been for 3 years. You can't just say "enforce them" and expect that magically it will happen, even less in a city where tourism has become a major economical backbone. The world is not that simple, these negative externalities can't be shoved under a rug when they start affecting a whole city's living population like is the case in Lisbon... > Trying to enforce social norms by not allowing "certain kinds of people" to sleep there is grade-a bullshit. Trying to get outcome A by making a rule about B is unfair to everyone who is B but not A and A but not B. This kind of reasoning is why it's so hard to get multi-family housing approved. A nice suburb in my city forced the development of new desperately needed apartment complexes to be on the the border because "less desirable" people live in apartments. Please, don't soapbox, the issue with AirBnBs in overcrowded touristic places is very, very different than whatever bullshit zoning laws happen in the USA, don't conflate those issues as they are not the same.
VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
This is what an HOA is for. If you don't have one then you should make one. If you don't want to make one then you can move somewhere else.
jefftk 3y ago
AirBnB does not allow hosting parties. The page https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3290 https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3290 tells neighbors how to report disruptive parties.
- bsagdiyev 3y ago
  I can promise, anecdotally, that is not followed. You know where the AirBnB houses are in my Mom's neighborhood in La Costa/Carlsbad area because they will always have loud people/parties. Neighbors are polite enough to give a heads up if they're going to be loud generally.
  - jefftk 3y ago
    I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying that you can report it to AirBnB if it does. Anecdotally, they take these reports seriously.
    - toast0 3y ago
      That would be easier to do if all of the AirBnB hotel-alikes had signage indicating they were AirBnB. After all, I'm not going to report all parties I find objectionable to all of the house rental companies.
golergka 3y ago
If I would be buying a house, I would be looking for a HOA which would have an explicit, contractual obligation of keeping the noise level low. So when this dentist would do this, I would be delighted to get compensation from him. Government's laws and regulations are not contracts. People don't enter them voluntarily and they are not known ahead of time — it's simply the will of the voting majority, or worse, imposed on everybody with violence.

tru3_power 3y ago

If the party house isn’t causing a nuisance who cares? What people decide to do with their property should be their choice.

wavefunction 3y ago
Do you think I used the terminology "24/7 party house" to cover properties that are not a nuisance. You're on the list of unserious people as well now.
Raudius 3y ago
Real estate owners are already limited to what they can do with their property. How is regulating airbnbs any different from zoning laws?
- mantas 3y ago
  Usually airbnb is working around zoning laws. The essence of airbnb is to rent out regular apartments in regular apartment buildings. Which are not designed to be hotel-like short term rentals.
omginternets 3y ago
Oh, so you do believe in restricting what people can do with their property?
piva00 3y ago
The issue is that it becomes a nuisance, a 24/7 party apartment is exactly that in a building: a nuisance. Also, freedom to do whatever you want in your property is not how most of the world operates, if you share a building with others in most countries you have to abide to certain rules. These rules are more commonly disrespected by short-term guests who don't have to care about long-term relationships with neighbours. If it's not a nuisance, then no one would complain, but it eventually becomes a nuisance. As an anecdote: a month ago I stayed a few days (5-7) at a friend's place I was visiting who lives in Lisbon, just on his floor there are 4 AirBnBs (owned by the same person). Not only it was a nuisance with noise for most of the days I was there it was also a nuisance to have drunk British girls banging on your door at 02.00 in the night when they don't remember the fucking apartment they are supposedly going to. My friend mentioned it's not uncommon for that to happen, or to have a gag of people show up to a party in one of the apartments. Other people living in the building have complained to AirBnB, to the police, to the housing association, nothing really happens. This is just one building, in one city suffering the bad sides of tourism, I can't imagine how many of these instances repeat throughout AirBnB-listed properties in similar places...
- sgu999 3y ago
  In my experience, Lisbon really is the worst case scenario of gentrification and tourism gone absolutely wrong. A fair amount of Portuguese are profiting from it, but I can imagine how much of a burden it is for the ones who don't.
- Spivak 3y ago
  > These rules are more commonly disrespected by short-term guests So enforce them, it's one five minute zero-interaction phone call to have a cop deal with a noise complaint. I can, and do, throw loud parties at my apartment, stumble through my hallways drunk, and host rowdy out of town friends and no one dares question my ability to live there. Trying to enforce social norms by not allowing "certain kinds of people" to sleep there is grade-a bullshit. Trying to get outcome A by making a rule about B is unfair to everyone who is B but not A and A but not B. This kind of reasoning is why it's so hard to get multi-family housing approved. A nice suburb in my city forced the development of new desperately needed apartment complexes to be on the the border because "less desirable" people live in apartments.
  - piva00 3y ago
    > So enforce them, it's one five minute zero-interaction phone call to have a cop deal with a noise complaint. I can, and do, throw loud parties at my apartment, stumble through my hallways drunk, and host rowdy out of town friends and no one dares question my ability to live there. "Just enforce them" is a non-solution, I mentioned that my anecdote included calling cops and bringing it up with AirBnB and housing association, the apartments are still listed, as they've been for 3 years. You can't just say "enforce them" and expect that magically it will happen, even less in a city where tourism has become a major economical backbone. The world is not that simple, these negative externalities can't be shoved under a rug when they start affecting a whole city's living population like is the case in Lisbon... > Trying to enforce social norms by not allowing "certain kinds of people" to sleep there is grade-a bullshit. Trying to get outcome A by making a rule about B is unfair to everyone who is B but not A and A but not B. This kind of reasoning is why it's so hard to get multi-family housing approved. A nice suburb in my city forced the development of new desperately needed apartment complexes to be on the the border because "less desirable" people live in apartments. Please, don't soapbox, the issue with AirBnBs in overcrowded touristic places is very, very different than whatever bullshit zoning laws happen in the USA, don't conflate those issues as they are not the same.

VWWHFSfQ 3y ago

This is what an HOA is for. If you don't have one then you should make one. If you don't want to make one then you can move somewhere else.

jefftk 3y ago

AirBnB does not allow hosting parties. The page https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3290 https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3290 tells neighbors how to report disruptive parties.

bsagdiyev 3y ago
I can promise, anecdotally, that is not followed. You know where the AirBnB houses are in my Mom's neighborhood in La Costa/Carlsbad area because they will always have loud people/parties. Neighbors are polite enough to give a heads up if they're going to be loud generally.
- jefftk 3y ago
  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying that you can report it to AirBnB if it does. Anecdotally, they take these reports seriously.
  - toast0 3y ago
    That would be easier to do if all of the AirBnB hotel-alikes had signage indicating they were AirBnB. After all, I'm not going to report all parties I find objectionable to all of the house rental companies.

golergka 3y ago

If I would be buying a house, I would be looking for a HOA which would have an explicit, contractual obligation of keeping the noise level low. So when this dentist would do this, I would be delighted to get compensation from him. Government's laws and regulations are not contracts. People don't enter them voluntarily and they are not known ahead of time — it's simply the will of the voting majority, or worse, imposed on everybody with violence.