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That's the best article I've seen. Thanks. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666792421000500#fig0002 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a

That's the best article I've seen. Thanks. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666792421000500#fig0002 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266679242... But... note in fig. 2 how the renewables just start at 'manufacture', not 'mining' -> 'transport' -> 'refining' -> 'transport' -> 'manufacture' And how it also ends without '-> battery storage' and all the mining/transport/refining/manufacture that that entails. Battery storage was not a thing before renewable energy sources, that must also be included in analysis like this. Prior to renewables some sort of pumped storage was being used in hydro projects, but nothing like the scale of battery storage we have now. As I said in a previous comment, the supply chain (or whatever you want to call it) for renewables is far longer than is recognised.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
There's entire documents linked there, comparing the ways that eutrophication is affected by different energy systems. Normal people don't even know what eutrophication is, and they're not only measuring it, but having deep academic arguments about the best way to measure it correctly. So it's bold to glance at an overview diagram and conclude that they've never realised that manufacturing a wind turbine involves mining and therefore GHG emissions. That's something you could read in a right-wing newspapers online comment section over 20 years ago so it's not news to professionals in the field. edit to add quote from a random paper they reviewed: > The major stages of a typical LCA study are raw material acquisition, component manufacture and assembling, production of functional unit, and deposal of the product. Also, the bottom item on that same chart is "storage", both the creation and use of it. Storage, which gets covered even in the period between 2008-2019 when battery storage is fairly rare, because storage has been used alongside nuclear for decades.
natmaka 3y ago
The gorilla in the room is: https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline And another big one hides behind him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

There's entire documents linked there, comparing the ways that eutrophication is affected by different energy systems. Normal people don't even know what eutrophication is, and they're not only measuring it, but having deep academic arguments about the best way to measure it correctly. So it's bold to glance at an overview diagram and conclude that they've never realised that manufacturing a wind turbine involves mining and therefore GHG emissions. That's something you could read in a right-wing newspapers online comment section over 20 years ago so it's not news to professionals in the field. edit to add quote from a random paper they reviewed: > The major stages of a typical LCA study are raw material acquisition, component manufacture and assembling, production of functional unit, and deposal of the product. Also, the bottom item on that same chart is "storage", both the creation and use of it. Storage, which gets covered even in the period between 2008-2019 when battery storage is fairly rare, because storage has been used alongside nuclear for decades.

natmaka 3y ago

The gorilla in the room is: https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline And another big one hides behind him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid