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There are already reports of some large subreddits shutting down permanently, such as programming humor. The idea that this action can’t possibly hurt Reddit I

by dimmke 3y ago

There are already reports of some large subreddits shutting down permanently, such as programming humor. The idea that this action can’t possibly hurt Reddit I keep seeing is amazing to me. It absolutely will hurt Reddit. Even if it’s not an existential blow. Reddit took a long time to get to where it is. Simply saying it can absorb all this like it’s nothing is myopic. And FWIW, I’m glad most people aren’t as cynical as you, and willing to attempt to change things.

Izkata 3y ago
> There are already reports of some large subreddits shutting down permanently, such as programming humor. Great example, that one already has a possible replacement at programminghumour.
- dvngnt_ 3y ago
  less a replacement and more an alternative made years ago whose last post is 4 years ago and is currently restricted and the pinned post is saying they need moderators so back to square one. creating a new one isn't a problem but scaling users and finding people to run it well is
jacquesm 3y ago
What stops the reddit admins from re-enabling 'programming humor' and to solicit one or more new moderators?
- dimmke 3y ago
  Nothing, but it would result in even more backlash. I could see them doing this for the most popular subreddits like r/videos, but if you start doing this for even medium sized subreddits it’s going to have even more severe consequences. People aren’t stupid, and they aren’t as docile as you think. These theoretical questions to me are the equivalent of “Why didn’t the US just kill every person they encountered in Vietnam that was a male of fighting age instead of fighting against an insurgency? Well, they could have. They had the ability to. And it probably would have resulted in a different outcome. But it would had some pretty severe consequences.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    > Nothing, but it would result in even more backlash. I doubt that. But it's fine to disagree about such things, the mods are actually showing reddit that they are a risk factor themselves and you can bet that counter insurgency planning is underway. The 'vocal minority' is a minority. I don't think reddit would be above killing of a few hundred (or even a few thousand) accounts that they consider to be trouble makers (whether or not that is true is something else).
  - riffraff 3y ago
    > People aren’t stupid, and they aren’t as docile as you think. People have a very short attention span and a very low level of commitment if they're not directly impacted. Remember the outrage about Musk on Twitter? It's all but died down. Or the various attempts to create some alt-right social networks. People don't have an obvious other place to go, and the majority of the community of /r/whatever will just go to /r/whatever-else.
    - xeromal 3y ago
      This right here. I've been on reddit since 2010 or so and the dejure "most important thing in the world to talk about" is ever changing. Hong Kong, COVID-19, Ukraine, Harambe, Victory (the AMA person?), the great subreddit purge to name a few. Everyone claims they're going to delete reddit but will simply forget about it in a few weeks. haha
      - dimmke 3y ago
        I've been on Reddit since 2009, and never cared about any of that stuff or claimed I was going to leave Reddit over it. I absolutely am leaving Reddit over this. I am keeping my account, because I might need it to promote my business (it still has utility in that area and I am pragmatic, I am not going to not do something that could help my business for ideological reasons), but I will no longer be using it on a daily basis or contributing comments/posts unless they back away from this.
        3y ago
- sellyme 3y ago
  The general unwillingness of people to do unpaid labour for a website that is actively working against them. It's difficult enough to find anyone willing to actually put the hard yards in to moderation as it is, let alone when all of the resources and tools currently at moderator disposal get shut down.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Power is its own reward.
    - sellyme 3y ago
      Evidently not, since that's already a motivation that isn't sufficient to get enough people actually doing the work - and if anything, Reddit taking the step of unilaterally usurping community leaders for not being profitable enough would only reduce the perceived power of a moderator position.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        For every mod of a subreddit large enough to matter the wannabe mods will be lining up.
        sellyme 3y ago
        It's not a matter of "wannabe", it's "wannado". Having a bunch of sycophants in the sidebar isn't going to restore a community unless they're actually committed to making the subreddit an enjoyable place to be, and if they were committed to that they'd already be doing it.
      - dimmke 3y ago
        I think the people that we are arguing with don't understand that being a moderator of a subreddit isn't just about being able to ban people. It's about being a leader of a community. You decide rules and shape the "culture" of the subreddit. Yes, there are absolutely people who are moderators and on insane power trips. That's always been a thing, for every form of online community I've ever known of (IRC, forums, etc...) But there are also many who view the role differently. That's why moderators of subreddits like r/programmerhumor, a meme subreddit that is also a place for programmers (specifically newer programmers) to blow off steam and joke about things they're stressed out about believe they have the power to shut down the subreddit permanently and Reddit will not "bring it back." If Reddit crosses that line and brings subreddits back, installing puppet leaders who on earth is going to invest time into building a community on Reddit again? Knowing it can be yanked from them at an arbitrary whim - not even for breaking moral rules, but for threatening profits. This is a much more delicate balance than the commenters are painting it as. They clearly don't understand why Reddit works and seem to think it's pure network effect that has consolidated things away from independent forums. When people talk about googling something and adding "reddit" as a keyword, it's because they want to read authentic discussion from real people about a topic - and sometimes a topic that is somewhat obscure - not an SEO optimized landing page that's going to ask for their email and try to sell them something. That only exists in communities that are curated and participated in by people who care about them. Removing that removes the core of Reddit's being.
- Aaargh20318 3y ago
  Being a moderator is a lot of work. You'd have to find a sucker to provide free labor for you. You can maybe find a few, but can you find enough to replace all moderators once you pissed them off enough ?
  - sofal 3y ago
    Being a good moderator is a lot of work. There will be no lack of people that would line up to have moderating powers in a large enough subreddit.
    - worrycue 3y ago
      > There will be no lack of people that would line up to have moderating powers in a large enough subreddit. I don’t see how having bad mods not willing to put in the work and is just taking the role for the power is good for the subreddit and Reddit as a whole.

by dimmke 3y ago

Izkata 3y ago

> There are already reports of some large subreddits shutting down permanently, such as programming humor. Great example, that one already has a possible replacement at programminghumour.

dvngnt_ 3y ago
less a replacement and more an alternative made years ago whose last post is 4 years ago and is currently restricted and the pinned post is saying they need moderators so back to square one. creating a new one isn't a problem but scaling users and finding people to run it well is

jacquesm 3y ago

What stops the reddit admins from re-enabling 'programming humor' and to solicit one or more new moderators?

dimmke 3y ago
Nothing, but it would result in even more backlash. I could see them doing this for the most popular subreddits like r/videos, but if you start doing this for even medium sized subreddits it’s going to have even more severe consequences. People aren’t stupid, and they aren’t as docile as you think. These theoretical questions to me are the equivalent of “Why didn’t the US just kill every person they encountered in Vietnam that was a male of fighting age instead of fighting against an insurgency? Well, they could have. They had the ability to. And it probably would have resulted in a different outcome. But it would had some pretty severe consequences.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > Nothing, but it would result in even more backlash. I doubt that. But it's fine to disagree about such things, the mods are actually showing reddit that they are a risk factor themselves and you can bet that counter insurgency planning is underway. The 'vocal minority' is a minority. I don't think reddit would be above killing of a few hundred (or even a few thousand) accounts that they consider to be trouble makers (whether or not that is true is something else).
- riffraff 3y ago
  > People aren’t stupid, and they aren’t as docile as you think. People have a very short attention span and a very low level of commitment if they're not directly impacted. Remember the outrage about Musk on Twitter? It's all but died down. Or the various attempts to create some alt-right social networks. People don't have an obvious other place to go, and the majority of the community of /r/whatever will just go to /r/whatever-else.
  - xeromal 3y ago
    This right here. I've been on reddit since 2010 or so and the dejure "most important thing in the world to talk about" is ever changing. Hong Kong, COVID-19, Ukraine, Harambe, Victory (the AMA person?), the great subreddit purge to name a few. Everyone claims they're going to delete reddit but will simply forget about it in a few weeks. haha
    - dimmke 3y ago
      I've been on Reddit since 2009, and never cared about any of that stuff or claimed I was going to leave Reddit over it. I absolutely am leaving Reddit over this. I am keeping my account, because I might need it to promote my business (it still has utility in that area and I am pragmatic, I am not going to not do something that could help my business for ideological reasons), but I will no longer be using it on a daily basis or contributing comments/posts unless they back away from this.
      - 3y ago
sellyme 3y ago
The general unwillingness of people to do unpaid labour for a website that is actively working against them. It's difficult enough to find anyone willing to actually put the hard yards in to moderation as it is, let alone when all of the resources and tools currently at moderator disposal get shut down.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Power is its own reward.
  - sellyme 3y ago
    Evidently not, since that's already a motivation that isn't sufficient to get enough people actually doing the work - and if anything, Reddit taking the step of unilaterally usurping community leaders for not being profitable enough would only reduce the perceived power of a moderator position.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      For every mod of a subreddit large enough to matter the wannabe mods will be lining up.
      - sellyme 3y ago
        It's not a matter of "wannabe", it's "wannado". Having a bunch of sycophants in the sidebar isn't going to restore a community unless they're actually committed to making the subreddit an enjoyable place to be, and if they were committed to that they'd already be doing it.
    - dimmke 3y ago
      I think the people that we are arguing with don't understand that being a moderator of a subreddit isn't just about being able to ban people. It's about being a leader of a community. You decide rules and shape the "culture" of the subreddit. Yes, there are absolutely people who are moderators and on insane power trips. That's always been a thing, for every form of online community I've ever known of (IRC, forums, etc...) But there are also many who view the role differently. That's why moderators of subreddits like r/programmerhumor, a meme subreddit that is also a place for programmers (specifically newer programmers) to blow off steam and joke about things they're stressed out about believe they have the power to shut down the subreddit permanently and Reddit will not "bring it back." If Reddit crosses that line and brings subreddits back, installing puppet leaders who on earth is going to invest time into building a community on Reddit again? Knowing it can be yanked from them at an arbitrary whim - not even for breaking moral rules, but for threatening profits. This is a much more delicate balance than the commenters are painting it as. They clearly don't understand why Reddit works and seem to think it's pure network effect that has consolidated things away from independent forums. When people talk about googling something and adding "reddit" as a keyword, it's because they want to read authentic discussion from real people about a topic - and sometimes a topic that is somewhat obscure - not an SEO optimized landing page that's going to ask for their email and try to sell them something. That only exists in communities that are curated and participated in by people who care about them. Removing that removes the core of Reddit's being.
Aaargh20318 3y ago
Being a moderator is a lot of work. You'd have to find a sucker to provide free labor for you. You can maybe find a few, but can you find enough to replace all moderators once you pissed them off enough ?
- sofal 3y ago
  Being a good moderator is a lot of work. There will be no lack of people that would line up to have moderating powers in a large enough subreddit.
  - worrycue 3y ago
    > There will be no lack of people that would line up to have moderating powers in a large enough subreddit. I don’t see how having bad mods not willing to put in the work and is just taking the role for the power is good for the subreddit and Reddit as a whole.