4 ms·

(Note this article is from the middle of May, almost a month ago. It has already had its “outrage cycle”, so to speak.) In his response to this article, Carmac

by fwlr 3y ago

(Note this article is from the middle of May, almost a month ago. It has already had its “outrage cycle”, so to speak.) In his response to this article, Carmack identifies the original reason he found himself in these circles - “I like hard science fiction stories with a bit of competent libertarian vibe. I have since Heinlein”. I also like those kinds of stories, and likewise I happen to be friends with some of the authors of those stories. I’m speaking from personal experience when I say at least some of these authors are hardline, extremist, radical libertarians. That is the most important piece of context I can give you for making sense of why someone might be attending and endorsing a convention which lists a bunch of right-wing beliefs like “men cannot give birth” and “a fetus is a human being” on their about page[1]. I asked someone who’s planning to attend about that list; they said (paraphrasing): “I happen to be 2/5, but the point is that I accept anyone from 0/5 to 5/5, so that list doesn’t bother me. There is a type of person who only accepts people who are 0/5. The list is supposed to bother that type of person, so that they don’t attend”. (Note that this is just an attendee, not a speaker or the organizer; I don’t know for sure this is the rationale, but it strikes me as likely.) 1: Because that is a surprising and confusing thing. It is totally legitimate to be surprised and confused that someone is endorsing an event that endorses those beliefs, and to consequently feel hurt and seek explanation!

josephcsible 3y ago
> “I happen to be 2/5, but the point is that I accept anyone from 0/5 to 5/5, so that list doesn’t bother me. There is a type of person who only accepts people who are 0/5. The list is supposed to bother that type of person, so that they don’t attend”. I feel like the solution to the Paradox of Tolerance might be in there somewhere.
elcritch 3y ago
According to this poll only 22% of democrats or 27% of liberals believed the statement "some men can give birth". It seems absurd to me to call "men cannot give birth" a right wing belief. I can see why someone like Carmack who's into hard sci-fi would like a venue where they're not just playing semantics and word games.
- elcritch 3y ago
  oops, https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1567562677513338880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1567562677513338880%7Ctwgr%5E60b3409784a27b0ec282a5f179f451ed6538f237%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffism.tv%2Fpoll-1-in-5-democrats-believe-some-men-can-get-pregnant%2F https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1567562677513338880?r...
- rayiner 3y ago
  [flagged]
- jfengel 3y ago
  It sounds as if they are playing semantics and word games. They don't have to take a position on the question one way or another, but instead they've made it a defining characteristic of their meeting. They happen to be playing the side of the game "I refuse to acknowledge that things can possibly be different than I grew up thinking they were." Which seems to me like a weird position for a sci-fi conference to take, but it's not up to me to judge. I do, however, take issue with the notion that they're not involving themselves, which they are very clearly doing.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    > They happen to be playing the side of the game "I refuse to acknowledge that things can possibly be different than I grew up thinking they were." What do you think is the relevant difference—something that’s a fact rather than a matter of terminology or beliefs? Those points are actually entirely in line with Sci Fi. In Sci Fi, technological or scientific change is the vehicle for exploring different types of social concepts. The Star Trek world didn’t evolve into quasi-socialism because of moral change, but replicator technology. Sci-Fi typically doesn’t explore “nothing material has changed but we are going to change how we think anyway.”
    - jfengel 3y ago
      The existence of trans people is a real thing. If they don't like the terminology trans people use for it, fine, but that's a semantic argument. If they're denying that trans people exist, or that they'll go away if they're denied the right to use certain terminology, then it's a simple factual error.

by fwlr 3y ago

josephcsible 3y ago

> “I happen to be 2/5, but the point is that I accept anyone from 0/5 to 5/5, so that list doesn’t bother me. There is a type of person who only accepts people who are 0/5. The list is supposed to bother that type of person, so that they don’t attend”. I feel like the solution to the Paradox of Tolerance might be in there somewhere.

elcritch 3y ago

According to this poll only 22% of democrats or 27% of liberals believed the statement "some men can give birth". It seems absurd to me to call "men cannot give birth" a right wing belief. I can see why someone like Carmack who's into hard sci-fi would like a venue where they're not just playing semantics and word games.

elcritch 3y ago
oops, https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1567562677513338880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1567562677513338880%7Ctwgr%5E60b3409784a27b0ec282a5f179f451ed6538f237%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffism.tv%2Fpoll-1-in-5-democrats-believe-some-men-can-get-pregnant%2F https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1567562677513338880?r...
rayiner 3y ago
[flagged]
jfengel 3y ago
It sounds as if they are playing semantics and word games. They don't have to take a position on the question one way or another, but instead they've made it a defining characteristic of their meeting. They happen to be playing the side of the game "I refuse to acknowledge that things can possibly be different than I grew up thinking they were." Which seems to me like a weird position for a sci-fi conference to take, but it's not up to me to judge. I do, however, take issue with the notion that they're not involving themselves, which they are very clearly doing.
- rayiner 3y ago
  > They happen to be playing the side of the game "I refuse to acknowledge that things can possibly be different than I grew up thinking they were." What do you think is the relevant difference—something that’s a fact rather than a matter of terminology or beliefs? Those points are actually entirely in line with Sci Fi. In Sci Fi, technological or scientific change is the vehicle for exploring different types of social concepts. The Star Trek world didn’t evolve into quasi-socialism because of moral change, but replicator technology. Sci-Fi typically doesn’t explore “nothing material has changed but we are going to change how we think anyway.”
  - jfengel 3y ago
    The existence of trans people is a real thing. If they don't like the terminology trans people use for it, fine, but that's a semantic argument. If they're denying that trans people exist, or that they'll go away if they're denied the right to use certain terminology, then it's a simple factual error.