5 ms·

it's almost like there should be a union or something

by mylons 3y ago

heavyset_go 3y ago
I was told developers had enough leverage without unions to prevent this from happening /s
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  When the market goes up, devs don't want to hear about unions because that would prevent them from jumping ship with a 50% raise. When the market goes down, they want a union to protect them from being fired from that +50% job they got knowing they would be paid much less in the current economy. The dev logic is "fuck you I've got mine, you go get yours" but only as long as "line goes up".
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    >When the market goes up, devs don't want to hear about unions because that would prevent them from jumping ship with a 50% raise. NOTHING about unions prevents an individual being rewarded for their individual merits or jumping from job to job.
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      Unions, at least in Germany, dictate stric salary bands for all employees, existing and new-commers. You can't have new-hires making 50% more than old-timers who've been 10 years with the company, just because the stock market has an uptick and an increased demand for people where there's a shortage. You can bring in the new-hire at similar wages to everyone already in the company with the same experience as him, or you have to raise wages for everyone else to give him a major increase. Guess which options companies here take. Unionized companies don't grow according to the stock market but according to profits, sales and customer orders, so you never see mass hires because the stock market went up, you also don't see mass fires because the market went down. That's why there isn't a huge salary difference between a senior and a junior, at least not like in the US where seniors can make 4-8 times as much as a junior. Unionized companies here also look down on job hoppers (people who jump ship for more compensation every 2-3 years) and tend not to hire them. So yeah, from historical evidence we have so far, from my PoV, unions and crazy compensations that also grow like crazy in sync with the stock market, are mutually exclusive. Do you want uniuonized slow stable growth that lags the stock market, or do you want to make money in sync or above the stock market? Pick one.
ekianjo 3y ago
you mean the union of people who show up in the office? Surely they will care a lot about remote workers
lnsru 3y ago
I am in a unionized big corp in Germany. Union does not stop layoffs or full back to office. Union representatives happily agree on business needs.

it's almost like there should be a union or something

by mylons 3y ago

it's almost like there should be a union or something

heavyset_go 3y ago

I was told developers had enough leverage without unions to prevent this from happening /s

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
When the market goes up, devs don't want to hear about unions because that would prevent them from jumping ship with a 50% raise. When the market goes down, they want a union to protect them from being fired from that +50% job they got knowing they would be paid much less in the current economy. The dev logic is "fuck you I've got mine, you go get yours" but only as long as "line goes up".
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  >When the market goes up, devs don't want to hear about unions because that would prevent them from jumping ship with a 50% raise. NOTHING about unions prevents an individual being rewarded for their individual merits or jumping from job to job.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Unions, at least in Germany, dictate stric salary bands for all employees, existing and new-commers. You can't have new-hires making 50% more than old-timers who've been 10 years with the company, just because the stock market has an uptick and an increased demand for people where there's a shortage. You can bring in the new-hire at similar wages to everyone already in the company with the same experience as him, or you have to raise wages for everyone else to give him a major increase. Guess which options companies here take. Unionized companies don't grow according to the stock market but according to profits, sales and customer orders, so you never see mass hires because the stock market went up, you also don't see mass fires because the market went down. That's why there isn't a huge salary difference between a senior and a junior, at least not like in the US where seniors can make 4-8 times as much as a junior. Unionized companies here also look down on job hoppers (people who jump ship for more compensation every 2-3 years) and tend not to hire them. So yeah, from historical evidence we have so far, from my PoV, unions and crazy compensations that also grow like crazy in sync with the stock market, are mutually exclusive. Do you want uniuonized slow stable growth that lags the stock market, or do you want to make money in sync or above the stock market? Pick one.

ekianjo 3y ago

you mean the union of people who show up in the office? Surely they will care a lot about remote workers

lnsru 3y ago

I am in a unionized big corp in Germany. Union does not stop layoffs or full back to office. Union representatives happily agree on business needs.