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“ The Public Interest Advocacy staff of the Georgia Public Service Commission warned back in 2008 that the costs could skyrocket. They advocated for a risk-shar

“ The Public Interest Advocacy staff of the Georgia Public Service Commission warned back in 2008 that the costs could skyrocket. They advocated for a risk-sharing mechanism to incentivize Georgia Power to keep the construction costs down and opposed plans to bill customers for the Vogtle construction while it was underway. Both proposals failed. Thanks to a 2009 state law, Georgia Power ratepayers are billed a monthly Nuclear Construction Cost Recovery fee. They will begin paying an additional monthly charge when each of the new Plant Vogtle units come online.” If I were a Georgia Power customer I’d be livid. Why on Earth should I be on the hook for cost overruns instead of the company building the thing?

elif 3y ago
GP customer here. They have a monopoly anyway, so they will recover costs one way or another anyway. Also, we pay some of the lowest energy rates in the country so there's not much to be mad about. Overnight I pay $0.01/kwh ($0.03 if you include fees). Lastly, why get mad when you can get solar.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Wow, I thought my $0.08/kWh in PNW was great.
  - lftl 3y ago
    Note that elif said "overnight" rate. I'm pretty sure they're on the EV rate plan from GA Power[1]. You only get that rate at night, and you pay a pretty punitive $0.21/kwh for any peak usage. As they mentioned, that's a pretty solid number for the marginal rate you'll pay for an extra kwh, but there are a number of base fees tacked on to that. I'm not on the EV plan, but my average out the door winter final rate is about $0.13/kwh and my summer rate ends up being more like $0.17/kwh. [1] https://www.georgiapower.com/residential/billing-and-rate-plans/pricing-and-rate-plans/plug-in-ev.html https://www.georgiapower.com/residential/billing-and-rate-pl...
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Oh, that makes more sense.
      - hackernewds 3y ago
        Still great for charging your EV overnight
    - tkanarsky 3y ago
      Pff, your punitive 21¢/kWh is cheaper than our overnight 25¢/kWh or so in the Bay Area :P
      - mcv 3y ago
        Is night time energy still cheaper than day time? I thought that with the rise of cheap solar, day time energy would have been cheaper by now.
    - jandrese 3y ago
      That also incentivizes home battery systems. Charge it up overnight and then use the battery power during peak times. It's a good deal for the power company if you do that too because it reduces amount of swing in the grid.
      - mcv 3y ago
        It also incentivises solar, which provides super cheap energy during the day.
      - elif 3y ago
        Yup during peak hours I'm usually pumping 3-5 kw to the grid. It's a win-win.
        lftl 3y ago
        GA Power net metering is still limited access, right? Did you have to wait on a wait-list to get approved for it?
- willis936 3y ago
  Jesus. I pay 28c/kWh + 8c/kWh delivery (and many other fees that add to another 7c/kWh).
  - zbrozek 3y ago
    California costs are unhinged. I'm extremely excited to get my ducks in a row and move out.
    - willis936 3y ago
      These are MA prices.
      - zbrozek 3y ago
        Oops; wrong guess then. Still, that's extremely high and I'm glad it wasn't a destination on my list. I'm thinking of moving from CA to the southeast to escape the cost of living. Probably KY, TN, GA, SC, or NC.
- mcv 3y ago
  If the US is so big on the free market, why are there monopolies everywhere? In Netherland I can choose who to buy my energy from (I buy mine from a company that provides only green energy).
Georgelemental 3y ago
The entity responsible for these overruns is the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They are the ones who should lose funding!
- epistasis 3y ago
  In what way? Be specific. I have never heard a single regulation that should change, and the AP1000 reactors at both Summer and Vogtle were approved under a new process pushed for by the nuclear industry. In truth, basic incompetence from design to EPC has caused these disasters. And it's not just the US NRC, it's happened in Europe with France's EPR, too. The NRC is a scapegoat for the incompetent, that don't want to look at the true sources of failure.
  - evilos 3y ago
    Here's a specific complaint about the application of a new and unnecessary airplane strike rule to an already approved design: https://atomicinsights.com/nrcs-imposition-of-aircraft-impact-rule-played-a-major-role-in-vogtle-project-delays-and-vc-summer-failure/ https://atomicinsights.com/nrcs-imposition-of-aircraft-impac... Personally, I think what will happen is that other countries like China and South Korea will build lots and lots of NPPs cheaply and quickly and the US will only consider making changes to the way things are done after looking incredibly inept in comparison. The NRC is only one of many things that needs to change.
    - philipkglass 3y ago
      This doesn't explain why the Vogtle AP1000s had cost/schedule overruns. You can blame the NRC rules for adding complexity and cost but you can't blame the NRC for the nuclear industry's wildly over-optimistic estimates. According to that article, the airplane strike rule was added in 2009. The reactors began construction in 2013 with certain cost/schedule estimates. If the airplane strike rule significantly increased effort, that should have been accounted for before they actually started building. They had 4 years in advance to figure it out (or, if they couldn't figure it out in time, to postpone until they understood the consequences). After construction started the project kept slipping and costs kept going up for 10 years, despite the rules remaining the same since construction was actually under way.
cpursley 3y ago
It's offset by the fact that high energy consumption industry is moving to Georgia in a big way. Battery plants, car manufacturers, mattress factories, all sorts of well paying non-service industry non college degree positions that make for a robust diverse economy. - https://www.georgiatrend.com/2023/03/29/2023-industry-outlook/ https://www.georgiatrend.com/2023/03/29/2023-industry-outloo... - https://www.selectgeorgia.com/discover-georgia/industries/ https://www.selectgeorgia.com/discover-georgia/industries/ - https://gov.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-01-19/gov-kemp-key-industries-sustain-momentum-states-economic-development https://gov.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-01-19/gov-kemp-k...

elif 3y ago

GP customer here. They have a monopoly anyway, so they will recover costs one way or another anyway. Also, we pay some of the lowest energy rates in the country so there's not much to be mad about. Overnight I pay $0.01/kwh ($0.03 if you include fees). Lastly, why get mad when you can get solar.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Wow, I thought my $0.08/kWh in PNW was great.
- lftl 3y ago
  Note that elif said "overnight" rate. I'm pretty sure they're on the EV rate plan from GA Power[1]. You only get that rate at night, and you pay a pretty punitive $0.21/kwh for any peak usage. As they mentioned, that's a pretty solid number for the marginal rate you'll pay for an extra kwh, but there are a number of base fees tacked on to that. I'm not on the EV plan, but my average out the door winter final rate is about $0.13/kwh and my summer rate ends up being more like $0.17/kwh. [1] https://www.georgiapower.com/residential/billing-and-rate-plans/pricing-and-rate-plans/plug-in-ev.html https://www.georgiapower.com/residential/billing-and-rate-pl...
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Oh, that makes more sense.
    - hackernewds 3y ago
      Still great for charging your EV overnight
  - tkanarsky 3y ago
    Pff, your punitive 21¢/kWh is cheaper than our overnight 25¢/kWh or so in the Bay Area :P
    - mcv 3y ago
      Is night time energy still cheaper than day time? I thought that with the rise of cheap solar, day time energy would have been cheaper by now.
  - jandrese 3y ago
    That also incentivizes home battery systems. Charge it up overnight and then use the battery power during peak times. It's a good deal for the power company if you do that too because it reduces amount of swing in the grid.
    - mcv 3y ago
      It also incentivises solar, which provides super cheap energy during the day.
    - elif 3y ago
      Yup during peak hours I'm usually pumping 3-5 kw to the grid. It's a win-win.
      - lftl 3y ago
        GA Power net metering is still limited access, right? Did you have to wait on a wait-list to get approved for it?
willis936 3y ago
Jesus. I pay 28c/kWh + 8c/kWh delivery (and many other fees that add to another 7c/kWh).
- zbrozek 3y ago
  California costs are unhinged. I'm extremely excited to get my ducks in a row and move out.
  - willis936 3y ago
    These are MA prices.
    - zbrozek 3y ago
      Oops; wrong guess then. Still, that's extremely high and I'm glad it wasn't a destination on my list. I'm thinking of moving from CA to the southeast to escape the cost of living. Probably KY, TN, GA, SC, or NC.
mcv 3y ago
If the US is so big on the free market, why are there monopolies everywhere? In Netherland I can choose who to buy my energy from (I buy mine from a company that provides only green energy).

Georgelemental 3y ago

The entity responsible for these overruns is the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They are the ones who should lose funding!

epistasis 3y ago
In what way? Be specific. I have never heard a single regulation that should change, and the AP1000 reactors at both Summer and Vogtle were approved under a new process pushed for by the nuclear industry. In truth, basic incompetence from design to EPC has caused these disasters. And it's not just the US NRC, it's happened in Europe with France's EPR, too. The NRC is a scapegoat for the incompetent, that don't want to look at the true sources of failure.
- evilos 3y ago
  Here's a specific complaint about the application of a new and unnecessary airplane strike rule to an already approved design: https://atomicinsights.com/nrcs-imposition-of-aircraft-impact-rule-played-a-major-role-in-vogtle-project-delays-and-vc-summer-failure/ https://atomicinsights.com/nrcs-imposition-of-aircraft-impac... Personally, I think what will happen is that other countries like China and South Korea will build lots and lots of NPPs cheaply and quickly and the US will only consider making changes to the way things are done after looking incredibly inept in comparison. The NRC is only one of many things that needs to change.
  - philipkglass 3y ago
    This doesn't explain why the Vogtle AP1000s had cost/schedule overruns. You can blame the NRC rules for adding complexity and cost but you can't blame the NRC for the nuclear industry's wildly over-optimistic estimates. According to that article, the airplane strike rule was added in 2009. The reactors began construction in 2013 with certain cost/schedule estimates. If the airplane strike rule significantly increased effort, that should have been accounted for before they actually started building. They had 4 years in advance to figure it out (or, if they couldn't figure it out in time, to postpone until they understood the consequences). After construction started the project kept slipping and costs kept going up for 10 years, despite the rules remaining the same since construction was actually under way.

cpursley 3y ago

It's offset by the fact that high energy consumption industry is moving to Georgia in a big way. Battery plants, car manufacturers, mattress factories, all sorts of well paying non-service industry non college degree positions that make for a robust diverse economy. - https://www.georgiatrend.com/2023/03/29/2023-industry-outlook/ https://www.georgiatrend.com/2023/03/29/2023-industry-outloo... - https://www.selectgeorgia.com/discover-georgia/industries/ https://www.selectgeorgia.com/discover-georgia/industries/ - https://gov.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-01-19/gov-kemp-key-industries-sustain-momentum-states-economic-development https://gov.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-01-19/gov-kemp-k...