3 ms·

I never cease to be amazed at the extent to which knowledge workers want to make "replace us with Eastern Europeans/Latin Americans/Indians" as painless a drop

by HWR_14 3y ago

I never cease to be amazed at the extent to which knowledge workers want to make "replace us with Eastern Europeans/Latin Americans/Indians" as painless a drop in as possible.

jleyank 3y ago
If they could have done it 10-20 years ago, they would have and Covid would never have been an issue. Was in a company in the 90's trying to do that with Russian developers, and didn't Sun hire 50 when the wall came down? Paid them in Levis and the like. Outsourcing/offshoring is old news.
- biohax2015 3y ago
  They are doing it. Slowly, but surely.
  - jleyank 3y ago
    True, and the location of your posterior (unless you're in Asia or Eastern Europe) won't matter in the least when the flush your group and move it offshore.
    - HWR_14 3y ago
      Right now they're convinced I have to show up in the office. I'm happy not to convince them they are wrong.
adamisom 3y ago
If that’s really going to happen, I guess I’ll switch careers. If that happens to every career, I guess I’ll become one of the managers making those decisions. Stay on top of change, don’t be victimized by it.
- HWR_14 3y ago
  > If that happens to every career, I guess I’ll become one of the managers making those decisions. Because there are as many people who need to manage programmers as there are currently hired programmers? The number of jobs would certainly go down, or there would be no point. > Stay on top of change, don’t be victimized by it. Sometimes you can ride change, sometimes you cannot. You focus on being one of the 100(?) US programmers who becomes a manager. Good luck. I'll just continue advocating return to office before that happens. Since the C-suites seem to want to return to office, I'll just enjoy that for now.
the_doctah 3y ago
You get what you pay for
sidlls 3y ago
This has been an ongoing issue in tech for at least two decades now. The workers in these places are generally not as skilled at software development. Their countrymen who are quite skilled have, to a large degree, moved to the US for work. My in-office coworkers from India, for example, have for the most part been at least as good as those from anywhere else including native US citizens. Those who have worked off-shore? Not so much. Quite poor, in fact. On more than one occasion I've seen units off-shored only to be brought back in a year. Companies try it because they want to save labor costs, and then regret it because the cost ends up increasing, as those who are left on-shore have to sacrifice their own productivity to make-up for the negative productivity from these workers.
- Foobar8568 3y ago
  Negatively productivity? We are teaching our supplier how their SaaS product, magic quadrant leader, is working ffs.
sensanaty 3y ago
Most everyone from those "cheap" areas have either already moved/organized good pay and thus getting paid the same as the "expensive" westerners, or are completely garbage and will result in a complete rewrite that ends up costing 10x more than just hiring competent people in the first place.

by HWR_14 3y ago

I never cease to be amazed at the extent to which knowledge workers want to make "replace us with Eastern Europeans/Latin Americans/Indians" as painless a drop in as possible.

jleyank 3y ago

If they could have done it 10-20 years ago, they would have and Covid would never have been an issue. Was in a company in the 90's trying to do that with Russian developers, and didn't Sun hire 50 when the wall came down? Paid them in Levis and the like. Outsourcing/offshoring is old news.

biohax2015 3y ago
They are doing it. Slowly, but surely.
- jleyank 3y ago
  True, and the location of your posterior (unless you're in Asia or Eastern Europe) won't matter in the least when the flush your group and move it offshore.
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    Right now they're convinced I have to show up in the office. I'm happy not to convince them they are wrong.

adamisom 3y ago

If that’s really going to happen, I guess I’ll switch careers. If that happens to every career, I guess I’ll become one of the managers making those decisions. Stay on top of change, don’t be victimized by it.

HWR_14 3y ago
> If that happens to every career, I guess I’ll become one of the managers making those decisions. Because there are as many people who need to manage programmers as there are currently hired programmers? The number of jobs would certainly go down, or there would be no point. > Stay on top of change, don’t be victimized by it. Sometimes you can ride change, sometimes you cannot. You focus on being one of the 100(?) US programmers who becomes a manager. Good luck. I'll just continue advocating return to office before that happens. Since the C-suites seem to want to return to office, I'll just enjoy that for now.

the_doctah 3y ago

You get what you pay for

sidlls 3y ago

This has been an ongoing issue in tech for at least two decades now. The workers in these places are generally not as skilled at software development. Their countrymen who are quite skilled have, to a large degree, moved to the US for work. My in-office coworkers from India, for example, have for the most part been at least as good as those from anywhere else including native US citizens. Those who have worked off-shore? Not so much. Quite poor, in fact. On more than one occasion I've seen units off-shored only to be brought back in a year. Companies try it because they want to save labor costs, and then regret it because the cost ends up increasing, as those who are left on-shore have to sacrifice their own productivity to make-up for the negative productivity from these workers.

Foobar8568 3y ago
Negatively productivity? We are teaching our supplier how their SaaS product, magic quadrant leader, is working ffs.

sensanaty 3y ago

Most everyone from those "cheap" areas have either already moved/organized good pay and thus getting paid the same as the "expensive" westerners, or are completely garbage and will result in a complete rewrite that ends up costing 10x more than just hiring competent people in the first place.