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I wonder how well this works with the proposed US-EU agreement on common charging ports? About a week ago EU and the US met for the EU-US Trade and Technology C

I wonder how well this works with the proposed US-EU agreement on common charging ports? About a week ago EU and the US met for the EU-US Trade and Technology Council, where among other things they published this[0]: We also welcome the publication of EU-US joint technical recommendations for government-funded implementation of e-vehicle charging infrastructure which were developed in consultation with governments, industry, and grid-service stakeholders. This then links to a slightly more technical document[1], with more specific information: 1.) Adopt an agreed set of standards and regulations in technical requirements for public funding, while expanding transatlantic collaboration to identify and address priority gaps in standards for e-mobility infrastructure. The following could be implemented now, or is currently implemented by authorities: a) Require, as a minimum, use of pertinent IEC 61851 and IEC 62196-2/-3 standards for light- to medium-duty EV inlets and their EV-EVSE connectors, respecting the "Type 1"- and "Type 2"- form, as commonly used in the U.S. and the EU, respectively. I believe it is the IEC 62196 standard[2] that governs the connectors, and I don't see Tesla's connector in there. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_23_2992 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statem... [1] https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-05/Transatlantic_Technical_Recommendations_for_Government_Funded_Implementation_of_Electric_Vehicle_Charging_Infrastructure_0.pdf https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196

kjksf 3y ago
Tesla's supercharger network was funded by Tesla. Those are: a) recommendations, not rules b) for government-funded chargers Even if those were rules, not mere recommendations, they would not apply to this deal.
- sorenjan 3y ago
  Yes, but shipping new cars with a different charging plug than new government funded chargers doesn't seem like a great idea. The industry should start converging to a common standard by now, and as far as I know not even Tesla is using their plug in the EU.
cptskippy 3y ago
> respecting the "Type 1"- and "Type 2"- form, as commonly used in the U.S. and the EU, respectively. That's likely reference to Combo 1 and Combo 2 in CCS. CCS Combo 1 and J1772 support single phase (i.e., North American) AC power. CCS Combo 1 is J1772 plus two large DC pins. In Europe they use multi-phase power and so they don't have J1772, instead they use a connector colloquially called Mennekes. Thus they use CCS Combo 2 which is a Mennekes connector plus two large DC pins. In order for Europe and US to adopt the same connector, the US would likely have to switch to Mennekes because I believe it can support single, two, or three phase AC. Or more likely this would require the US to adopt CCS Combo 1. But I fail to see how that would benefit manufacturers because they'd still be supporting two CCS connectors.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > In order for Europe and US to adopt the same connector The J3068 standard is the North American version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J3068 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J3068 It's largely compatible with the European standard.
  - cptskippy 3y ago
    Right, so do we switch to J3068 for all North American EVs adding yet another connector for providers to support? NACS support is a much lighter lift.
- amluto 3y ago
  How common is actual three phase charging in Europe? Most larger buildings in the US (condominium complexes, commercial buildings, and things like supercharger stations) have three-phase supply. But most non-huge loads get only one or two of the phases, presumably because the benefit of wiring up all three is pretty small compared to the added expense of installing an extra wire and keeping track of which phase is which.
  - cptskippy 3y ago
    That's exactly my point. It's far easier to adopt NACS as the North American standard than J1772, CCS Combo 1 or anything else. It requires the least change.

kjksf 3y ago

Tesla's supercharger network was funded by Tesla. Those are: a) recommendations, not rules b) for government-funded chargers Even if those were rules, not mere recommendations, they would not apply to this deal.

sorenjan 3y ago
Yes, but shipping new cars with a different charging plug than new government funded chargers doesn't seem like a great idea. The industry should start converging to a common standard by now, and as far as I know not even Tesla is using their plug in the EU.

cptskippy 3y ago

> respecting the "Type 1"- and "Type 2"- form, as commonly used in the U.S. and the EU, respectively. That's likely reference to Combo 1 and Combo 2 in CCS. CCS Combo 1 and J1772 support single phase (i.e., North American) AC power. CCS Combo 1 is J1772 plus two large DC pins. In Europe they use multi-phase power and so they don't have J1772, instead they use a connector colloquially called Mennekes. Thus they use CCS Combo 2 which is a Mennekes connector plus two large DC pins. In order for Europe and US to adopt the same connector, the US would likely have to switch to Mennekes because I believe it can support single, two, or three phase AC. Or more likely this would require the US to adopt CCS Combo 1. But I fail to see how that would benefit manufacturers because they'd still be supporting two CCS connectors.

clouddrover 3y ago
> In order for Europe and US to adopt the same connector The J3068 standard is the North American version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J3068 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J3068 It's largely compatible with the European standard.
- cptskippy 3y ago
  Right, so do we switch to J3068 for all North American EVs adding yet another connector for providers to support? NACS support is a much lighter lift.
amluto 3y ago
How common is actual three phase charging in Europe? Most larger buildings in the US (condominium complexes, commercial buildings, and things like supercharger stations) have three-phase supply. But most non-huge loads get only one or two of the phases, presumably because the benefit of wiring up all three is pretty small compared to the added expense of installing an extra wire and keeping track of which phase is which.
- cptskippy 3y ago
  That's exactly my point. It's far easier to adopt NACS as the North American standard than J1772, CCS Combo 1 or anything else. It requires the least change.