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HN manually circumvents block from Asahi Linux devs

43 points by jrflowers 3y ago

sp332 3y ago
A link to the parent comment would make more sense IMO. https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759
MrGilbert 3y ago
Huh. I personally don’t get the issue this individual has with Hacker News. So I assume I'm part of the problem, then?
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  So far I have seen nothing but fawning for the project and its devs on here.
  - mbStavola 3y ago
    There have been many comments regarding Asahi Lina that were outwardly hateful or borderline so. Some of it moderated, but definitely not all. I do not blame the project for not wanting to associate with HN.
    - rezaprima 3y ago
      I personally don't have reason to hate Lina. How come?
  - hn_thrwn 3y ago
    Hn has a taste for shadow banning. You don't get to see what people post because a majority of posts on threads aren't shown to anyone but the author. This place is the iceberg meme basically.
    - ComputerGuru 3y ago
      Even if that were true (it’s not) how does that hurt the linked site?
      - hn_thrwn 3y ago
        The people who can't be heard here still click links. For some reason the terminally online think that banning people makes them disappear in the real world too.
- aardvark179 3y ago
  I don’t know what the problem is in this particular case, but from experience in some other areas getting attention on here is not universally positive. If there is something on here about a specific language feature or issue then we do see a small uptick in informed and useful discussion, but also we sometimes see a much bigger uptick in comments that are uninformed, unhelpful, or just need to get deleted. If that happened a few times to the Asahi Linux folks I can definitely understand them wanting to block this place.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- pseudo0 3y ago
  The project itself is popular, but HN allows people to talk about the fairly compelling circumstantial evidence that Asahi Lina is marcan's alter ego. Per previous discussion, they have /home/marcan and /home/lina on the same box [0], have the same hostname [1], and have similar accents and speaking patterns [2]. Marcan is free to do this, but it's completely bizarre behavior acted out in public which is now impacting the actual Asahi project. Doing v-tubing under a pseudonym is one thing, but maintaining a sockpuppet contributor on a major open source project and pretending to interact with it is a giant red flag. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35242010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35242010 [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601 [2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601
version_five 3y ago
This was already discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36230649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36230649 I had a hard time understanding what was going on but the upshot is these people are a bunch of narcissists that want to capitalize on the attention they're getting rather than work on their software, and now I know never to use Asahi Linux.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
krono 3y ago
Sabotaging incoming traffic from a specific source with an audience that's generally very excited about your work is just lame. Especially so when you consider their problem with HN seems to be with the way it's being managed rather than its visitors. Not very welcoming, helpful, considerate, or respectful at all. https://asahilinux.org/code-of-conduct/ https://asahilinux.org/code-of-conduct/ In response to @anlaw below: The golden rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
- anlaw 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- eesmith 3y ago
  The golden rule isn't so simple when different people have different ideas of what people would have. For example, if the HN mods think they '[host] harassment and abuse that goes unchecked' they may actually want the HN mods to not allow referrals from them. Or, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Differences_in_values_or_interests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Differences_in_val... : "George Bernard Shaw wrote, "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same."[95] This suggests that if your values are not shared with others, the way you want to be treated will not be the way they want to be treated." Reading even further in the Wikipedia article, you'll see '"doing as you would be done by" includes taking into account your neighbour's tastes as you would that he should take yours into account'. Using technical measures to avoid someone's block would see, under that reading of the golden rule, seem to break the golden rule. On a related topic, why do so many faiths have something like the golden rule, while also being male patriarchies where women are treated differently from men? Placing cultural restrictions on a woman that aren't place on a man would seem to fundamentally contrary to the golden rule.
  - krono 3y ago
odiroot 3y ago
This person has some weird grudge. Why spread their caustic message here?
- rnd0 3y ago
  because it's better to know, than to not know? Particularly for people considering whether to submit a link or story about Ashai Linux.
throwaway81523 3y ago
Discussed yesterday. Really, HN, please just disable the invasive outgoing referer tags from ALL outbound links, now that that is possible. Yes I know (as someone commented yesterday) that the target sites would like the info for their own analytics and marketing. But they would also like your email, income, sexual orientation, mothers maiden name, etc. The whole concept of privacy is that all those entities out there who want that info aren't automatically entitled to get their wish. The overlapping topic of "security" is about resisting even forceful attempts to get the info. Once HTTP escaped environments like CERN, referrers should have always been treated as private. So please, HN, please shut off those referrers.
- rektide 3y ago
  Building a good case where that sites should only have so so a hand in picking security/privacy levels for folks. These should be user tailorable with our agents or via preferences we can expose to sites. For now I'd often opt to DO_NOT_REFERER=0. Most sites from here are welcome to my referrer, may have that inboard thing.
- musicale 3y ago
  > invasive outgoing referer It's definitely an anti-privacy feature. I'd just shut it off in the browser except for occasional utility like search result links bypassing paywalls.
anoonmoose 3y ago
I don't think HN should be trying to associate with people who go out of their way to say that they don't want to associate with HN and to a certain extent I do think that if you don't understand why they don't want to associate with HN that indicates you might have some blind spots about HN. Ain't like they're the first to feel this way (hi jwz)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
Brian_K_White 3y ago
Their post recently telling everyone to just get over X and use wayland really bugged me and did not come across as a dev making their pitch to convince everyone why it would be a good idea, nor a dev apologizing that they don't have time to do everything and they're picking one thing to spend their time on, rather a dev saying we don't care we're only working on this and if you don't agree you're backwards and wrong. And then this. Ok.

43 points by jrflowers 3y ago

A link to the parent comment would make more sense IMO. https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759

MrGilbert 3y ago

Huh. I personally don’t get the issue this individual has with Hacker News. So I assume I'm part of the problem, then?

Traubenfuchs 3y ago
So far I have seen nothing but fawning for the project and its devs on here.
- mbStavola 3y ago
  There have been many comments regarding Asahi Lina that were outwardly hateful or borderline so. Some of it moderated, but definitely not all. I do not blame the project for not wanting to associate with HN.
  - rezaprima 3y ago
    I personally don't have reason to hate Lina. How come?
- hn_thrwn 3y ago
  Hn has a taste for shadow banning. You don't get to see what people post because a majority of posts on threads aren't shown to anyone but the author. This place is the iceberg meme basically.
  - ComputerGuru 3y ago
    Even if that were true (it’s not) how does that hurt the linked site?
    - hn_thrwn 3y ago
      The people who can't be heard here still click links. For some reason the terminally online think that banning people makes them disappear in the real world too.
aardvark179 3y ago
I don’t know what the problem is in this particular case, but from experience in some other areas getting attention on here is not universally positive. If there is something on here about a specific language feature or issue then we do see a small uptick in informed and useful discussion, but also we sometimes see a much bigger uptick in comments that are uninformed, unhelpful, or just need to get deleted. If that happened a few times to the Asahi Linux folks I can definitely understand them wanting to block this place.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pseudo0 3y ago
The project itself is popular, but HN allows people to talk about the fairly compelling circumstantial evidence that Asahi Lina is marcan's alter ego. Per previous discussion, they have /home/marcan and /home/lina on the same box [0], have the same hostname [1], and have similar accents and speaking patterns [2]. Marcan is free to do this, but it's completely bizarre behavior acted out in public which is now impacting the actual Asahi project. Doing v-tubing under a pseudonym is one thing, but maintaining a sockpuppet contributor on a major open source project and pretending to interact with it is a giant red flag. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35242010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35242010 [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601 [2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601

version_five 3y ago

This was already discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36230649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36230649 I had a hard time understanding what was going on but the upshot is these people are a bunch of narcissists that want to capitalize on the attention they're getting rather than work on their software, and now I know never to use Asahi Linux.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

krono 3y ago

Sabotaging incoming traffic from a specific source with an audience that's generally very excited about your work is just lame. Especially so when you consider their problem with HN seems to be with the way it's being managed rather than its visitors. Not very welcoming, helpful, considerate, or respectful at all. https://asahilinux.org/code-of-conduct/ https://asahilinux.org/code-of-conduct/ In response to @anlaw below: The golden rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

anlaw 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
eesmith 3y ago
The golden rule isn't so simple when different people have different ideas of what people would have. For example, if the HN mods think they '[host] harassment and abuse that goes unchecked' they may actually want the HN mods to not allow referrals from them. Or, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Differences_in_values_or_interests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Differences_in_val... : "George Bernard Shaw wrote, "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same."[95] This suggests that if your values are not shared with others, the way you want to be treated will not be the way they want to be treated." Reading even further in the Wikipedia article, you'll see '"doing as you would be done by" includes taking into account your neighbour's tastes as you would that he should take yours into account'. Using technical measures to avoid someone's block would see, under that reading of the golden rule, seem to break the golden rule. On a related topic, why do so many faiths have something like the golden rule, while also being male patriarchies where women are treated differently from men? Placing cultural restrictions on a woman that aren't place on a man would seem to fundamentally contrary to the golden rule.
- krono 3y ago

odiroot 3y ago

This person has some weird grudge. Why spread their caustic message here?

rnd0 3y ago
because it's better to know, than to not know? Particularly for people considering whether to submit a link or story about Ashai Linux.

throwaway81523 3y ago

Discussed yesterday. Really, HN, please just disable the invasive outgoing referer tags from ALL outbound links, now that that is possible. Yes I know (as someone commented yesterday) that the target sites would like the info for their own analytics and marketing. But they would also like your email, income, sexual orientation, mothers maiden name, etc. The whole concept of privacy is that all those entities out there who want that info aren't automatically entitled to get their wish. The overlapping topic of "security" is about resisting even forceful attempts to get the info. Once HTTP escaped environments like CERN, referrers should have always been treated as private. So please, HN, please shut off those referrers.

rektide 3y ago
Building a good case where that sites should only have so so a hand in picking security/privacy levels for folks. These should be user tailorable with our agents or via preferences we can expose to sites. For now I'd often opt to DO_NOT_REFERER=0. Most sites from here are welcome to my referrer, may have that inboard thing.
musicale 3y ago
> invasive outgoing referer It's definitely an anti-privacy feature. I'd just shut it off in the browser except for occasional utility like search result links bypassing paywalls.

anoonmoose 3y ago

I don't think HN should be trying to associate with people who go out of their way to say that they don't want to associate with HN and to a certain extent I do think that if you don't understand why they don't want to associate with HN that indicates you might have some blind spots about HN. Ain't like they're the first to feel this way (hi jwz)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

Brian_K_White 3y ago

Their post recently telling everyone to just get over X and use wayland really bugged me and did not come across as a dev making their pitch to convince everyone why it would be a good idea, nor a dev apologizing that they don't have time to do everything and they're picking one thing to spend their time on, rather a dev saying we don't care we're only working on this and if you don't agree you're backwards and wrong. And then this. Ok.