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> I see zero reason Apollo couldn't switch to a monthly billing model He probably could, but not in 30 days. > but somehow forgot to become a real business al

> I see zero reason Apollo couldn't switch to a monthly billing model He probably could, but not in 30 days. > but somehow forgot to become a real business along the way it seems. Or chose not to.

shagie 3y ago
Thirty days is not entirely representative of the timeframe for the change. Two and a half months is closer to the proper range. Reddit will begin charging for access to its API (nytimes.com) 303 points by alexrustic 51 days ago | 339 comments --- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35617763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35617763 https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/12ram0f/had_a_few_calls_with_reddit_today_about_the/ https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/12ram0f/had_a_fe... was posted April 19th. https://www.redditinc.com/blog/2023apiupdates https://www.redditinc.com/blog/2023apiupdates > ANNOUNCEMENTS Staff • April 18, 2023 > ... > To ensure developers have the tools and information they need to continue to use Reddit safely, protect our users’ privacy and security, and adhere to local regulations, we’re making updates to the ways some can access the Reddit Data API: > We are introducing a new premium access point for third parties who require additional capabilities, higher usage limits, and broader usage rights.
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  How, exactly, would you expect someone to change their pricing model when they don’t know what the prices would be? The prices themselves were announced May 30th. I guess if you’re feeling generous, that would be 32 days notice. He had notice there would be a change and was explicitly told: > The information they did provide however was: we will be moving to a paid API as it's not tenable for Reddit to pay for third-party apps indefinitely (understandable, agreed), so they're looking to do equitable pricing based in reality. They mentioned that they were not looking to be like Twitter, which has API pricing so high it was publicly ridiculed. There is absolutely no actionable information there, and everything they said indicated that it wouldn’t be an unreasonable change.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    They were supposed to have all of the billing framework figured out for monthly subscription model. The exact pricing could have been a variable set when the changes pushed into production. 30 days is ample notice to Apollo's users. Apollo has had since April to figure out how to make a monthly subscription work, on a technical level. Now... having done nothing smart in the meantime, are left with very little time to make the changes. That is 100% on Apollo.
    - mynameisvlad 3y ago
      Are you employed by Reddit or something? You shift the blame like there’s no tomorrow. At this point you either work for them, or are getting paid exorbitant amounts of money to defend them. That’s the only reasonable explanation for why you’d be pushing the blame so hard. Even if he had a full system set up in a month and a half (a fairly tight deadline), 32 days is an unreasonably short amount of time to make any sort of material change to your terms, let alone raising the cost exorbitantly. Hilariously, your first comment wishes people would pledge to pay for Apollo. How we got from there to… this bullshit is beyond me. At least it only took a few hours to show your true colors.
      - Alupis 3y ago
        Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it not true. Your "32 days" timeline you keep going on about is false no matter what way you look at it. Apollo has known since April API pricing was coming, and there was no way their existing "pay once, use it forever" or even the $12.99 per year model was going to be sustainable - particularly given how many free users they float monthly. Not knowing the exact fee in advance is completely irrelevant. The infrastructure needed to be built to support a monthly subscription model, freemium models, or whatever they needed to do to pivot and remain in business. 100% of the reason people use Apollo is because of the data and community Reddit has built. Apollo basically leached off that data, and made a profit while doing so. Any sound business operator would understand and plan for risks that endanger their business. Apollo failed to take action in a timely manner, and failed to mitigate risks to it's business. Now they're being asked to pay for the API access that makes Apollo's business possible - and even if the API fees were 1/4 of the proposed amount, Apollo was going to need to change their model. That is the point you, and many others seem to be missing - Apollo was not going to survive paying anything for API access - Apollo had no plan. I cannot make it any more clear - Apollo failed to plan for, and mitigate risks and failed to take corrective actions in time to save their business. Apollo was run like a hobby side-project - not a business.

> I see zero reason Apollo couldn't switch to a monthly billing model He probably could, but not in 30 days. > but somehow forgot to become a real business along the way it seems. Or chose not to.

shagie 3y ago

Thirty days is not entirely representative of the timeframe for the change. Two and a half months is closer to the proper range. Reddit will begin charging for access to its API (nytimes.com) 303 points by alexrustic 51 days ago | 339 comments --- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35617763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35617763 https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/12ram0f/had_a_few_calls_with_reddit_today_about_the/ https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/12ram0f/had_a_fe... was posted April 19th. https://www.redditinc.com/blog/2023apiupdates https://www.redditinc.com/blog/2023apiupdates > ANNOUNCEMENTS Staff • April 18, 2023 > ... > To ensure developers have the tools and information they need to continue to use Reddit safely, protect our users’ privacy and security, and adhere to local regulations, we’re making updates to the ways some can access the Reddit Data API: > We are introducing a new premium access point for third parties who require additional capabilities, higher usage limits, and broader usage rights.

mynameisvlad 3y ago
How, exactly, would you expect someone to change their pricing model when they don’t know what the prices would be? The prices themselves were announced May 30th. I guess if you’re feeling generous, that would be 32 days notice. He had notice there would be a change and was explicitly told: > The information they did provide however was: we will be moving to a paid API as it's not tenable for Reddit to pay for third-party apps indefinitely (understandable, agreed), so they're looking to do equitable pricing based in reality. They mentioned that they were not looking to be like Twitter, which has API pricing so high it was publicly ridiculed. There is absolutely no actionable information there, and everything they said indicated that it wouldn’t be an unreasonable change.
- Alupis 3y ago
  They were supposed to have all of the billing framework figured out for monthly subscription model. The exact pricing could have been a variable set when the changes pushed into production. 30 days is ample notice to Apollo's users. Apollo has had since April to figure out how to make a monthly subscription work, on a technical level. Now... having done nothing smart in the meantime, are left with very little time to make the changes. That is 100% on Apollo.
  - mynameisvlad 3y ago
    Are you employed by Reddit or something? You shift the blame like there’s no tomorrow. At this point you either work for them, or are getting paid exorbitant amounts of money to defend them. That’s the only reasonable explanation for why you’d be pushing the blame so hard. Even if he had a full system set up in a month and a half (a fairly tight deadline), 32 days is an unreasonably short amount of time to make any sort of material change to your terms, let alone raising the cost exorbitantly. Hilariously, your first comment wishes people would pledge to pay for Apollo. How we got from there to… this bullshit is beyond me. At least it only took a few hours to show your true colors.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it not true. Your "32 days" timeline you keep going on about is false no matter what way you look at it. Apollo has known since April API pricing was coming, and there was no way their existing "pay once, use it forever" or even the $12.99 per year model was going to be sustainable - particularly given how many free users they float monthly. Not knowing the exact fee in advance is completely irrelevant. The infrastructure needed to be built to support a monthly subscription model, freemium models, or whatever they needed to do to pivot and remain in business. 100% of the reason people use Apollo is because of the data and community Reddit has built. Apollo basically leached off that data, and made a profit while doing so. Any sound business operator would understand and plan for risks that endanger their business. Apollo failed to take action in a timely manner, and failed to mitigate risks to it's business. Now they're being asked to pay for the API access that makes Apollo's business possible - and even if the API fees were 1/4 of the proposed amount, Apollo was going to need to change their model. That is the point you, and many others seem to be missing - Apollo was not going to survive paying anything for API access - Apollo had no plan. I cannot make it any more clear - Apollo failed to plan for, and mitigate risks and failed to take corrective actions in time to save their business. Apollo was run like a hobby side-project - not a business.