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My favorite part about this is how it basically forces services to accept this as a functional scenario. If it were UBlock Origin doing this, sites could just

My favorite part about this is how it basically forces services to accept this as a functional scenario. If it were UBlock Origin doing this, sites could just say "Sorry, we don't support this, your addin is breaking everything, please turn it off." But when Apple does something, there's no room for conversation. Sites can't say "Sorry, we don't work on iPhones." For better or worse, what Apple decides becomes acceptable. In this case for better.

reaperducer 3y ago
But when Apple does something, there's no room for conversation. Sites can't say "Sorry, we don't work on iPhones." Absolutely. There was no shortage of Windows-centric corporate IT departments that swore that they'd never support Apple products. Then iPhones started showing up in boardrooms, and they quickly changed their tune. I brought my iPhone to work shortly after launch and showed it to curious coworkers. The head of IT for that particular multinational corp said it was garbage and would never be allowed on his network. "Apple is crapple" was his favorite phrase. A few months later he got to peddle his anti-Apple mantra on the unemployment line.
- bilbo0s 3y ago
  In fairness to the people who fired him, fanboy-ism has no place in the dispassionate decision making process of a professional. You have to have people around who are making decisions based on realities and not mantras or you're going to lose money. If he wants a job where fanboy-ism can be helpful in climbing the ladder, he should try politics or something like that. Where all the money on the line belongs to other people. So no one really works to protect any of it.
- vxNsr 3y ago
  Wow, are you seriously crowing about someone getting fired for not liking a particular company?
  - interpol_p 3y ago
    We shouldn’t crow about people being fired. But I’ve had that anti-Apple attitude leveraged at me in _so many meetings_. Having to smile and be polite to the face of people who keep referring to your choice of hardware as “fisher price” or “a toy” or “for sheep” is tiring and infuriating. I’m an engineer, and I made my decision with as much technical and design knowledge as anyone else In my experience it’s also extremely one sided. I work with Windows, Android and Apple colleagues and the amount of times I hear “Xcode is crap haha”, “How can they live with such a shitty OS” etc. makes me wonder if all this is rooted in deep insecurity or something? Some Windows-centric people in senior management places I have worked will use me taking my iPhone out of my pocket as an opportunity to criticise the platform, my choice, and so on I’m sure that some Apple users are quick to do the same, but in my experience they just tend to get on with their lives
jejeyyy77 3y ago
Well, actually this might break a significant portion of the internet/websites for iPhone users.
- humbleharbinger 3y ago
  I wonder can they tell the difference between tracking params and good old unobtrusive query params?
  - thomaslord 3y ago
    Ultimately I don't think they can. How would they handle a link like `https://example.com/password_reset?prid=ZXhhbXBsZWNsaWNraWQ https://example.com/password_reset?prid=ZXhhbXBsZWNsaWNraWQ`? I'm sure somebody will figure out a way to use multiple seemingly-legitimate parameters to get the same result. Why use ?click_id=aqNERjsdfyqe when you can use ?category=10612550&subcategory=5929127&page=4257344 and transfer the same data without arousing suspicion?
    - neop1x 3y ago
      Websites can use a single lengthy encrypted parameter to encode everything (query params and tracking data). And then what.. will they break all website links by removing the parameter?
ok_dad 3y ago
Turn on iCloud private internet (apples vpn) and Google will make you do captchas all day long whenever they feel like it. I use DDG now, but Google really wants to track you.
memco 3y ago
> My favorite part about this is how it basically forces services to accept this as a functional scenario. Maybe some services will accept it, but others will not. When I tried to sign in to Microsoft Teams from Safari yesterday it presented a screen that said that Teams will only load on Safari if I disable tracking prevention for the Teams site. So unless users put additional pressures on services to offer support for Apple those services may just force users to accept tracking one way or another: either by disabling Safari's mitigations or using an alternative client that does not use such mitigations.
- blitz_skull 3y ago
  Oh no, I can’t use a useless Microsoft product in Safari! Jesting aside, it’s a bad example. No one is changing their browser so they can login to their employer’s shitty surveillance, oops, I mean communication platform.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    In what world aren't they? Their employer's shitty web frameworks are why IE11 has been relevant for so long. Your choices are 1) download the native application (with much more access to your system) 2) follow the instructions 3) open Chrome because realistically you probably already have it anyway or 4) lose your job to prove a point.
tehwebguy 3y ago
I like it! But I imagine we'll see Facebook etc using unique links for everything, without redirects. e.g. Your Facebook page url appears to be facebookdotcom/1234 for me when I click it from the home page, facebookdotcom/5678 when I click it from a thumbnail and facebookdotcom/0987 when someone else clicks it

reaperducer 3y ago

But when Apple does something, there's no room for conversation. Sites can't say "Sorry, we don't work on iPhones." Absolutely. There was no shortage of Windows-centric corporate IT departments that swore that they'd never support Apple products. Then iPhones started showing up in boardrooms, and they quickly changed their tune. I brought my iPhone to work shortly after launch and showed it to curious coworkers. The head of IT for that particular multinational corp said it was garbage and would never be allowed on his network. "Apple is crapple" was his favorite phrase. A few months later he got to peddle his anti-Apple mantra on the unemployment line.

bilbo0s 3y ago
In fairness to the people who fired him, fanboy-ism has no place in the dispassionate decision making process of a professional. You have to have people around who are making decisions based on realities and not mantras or you're going to lose money. If he wants a job where fanboy-ism can be helpful in climbing the ladder, he should try politics or something like that. Where all the money on the line belongs to other people. So no one really works to protect any of it.
vxNsr 3y ago
Wow, are you seriously crowing about someone getting fired for not liking a particular company?
- interpol_p 3y ago
  We shouldn’t crow about people being fired. But I’ve had that anti-Apple attitude leveraged at me in _so many meetings_. Having to smile and be polite to the face of people who keep referring to your choice of hardware as “fisher price” or “a toy” or “for sheep” is tiring and infuriating. I’m an engineer, and I made my decision with as much technical and design knowledge as anyone else In my experience it’s also extremely one sided. I work with Windows, Android and Apple colleagues and the amount of times I hear “Xcode is crap haha”, “How can they live with such a shitty OS” etc. makes me wonder if all this is rooted in deep insecurity or something? Some Windows-centric people in senior management places I have worked will use me taking my iPhone out of my pocket as an opportunity to criticise the platform, my choice, and so on I’m sure that some Apple users are quick to do the same, but in my experience they just tend to get on with their lives

jejeyyy77 3y ago

Well, actually this might break a significant portion of the internet/websites for iPhone users.

humbleharbinger 3y ago
I wonder can they tell the difference between tracking params and good old unobtrusive query params?
- thomaslord 3y ago
  Ultimately I don't think they can. How would they handle a link like `https://example.com/password_reset?prid=ZXhhbXBsZWNsaWNraWQ https://example.com/password_reset?prid=ZXhhbXBsZWNsaWNraWQ`? I'm sure somebody will figure out a way to use multiple seemingly-legitimate parameters to get the same result. Why use ?click_id=aqNERjsdfyqe when you can use ?category=10612550&subcategory=5929127&page=4257344 and transfer the same data without arousing suspicion?
  - neop1x 3y ago
    Websites can use a single lengthy encrypted parameter to encode everything (query params and tracking data). And then what.. will they break all website links by removing the parameter?

ok_dad 3y ago

Turn on iCloud private internet (apples vpn) and Google will make you do captchas all day long whenever they feel like it. I use DDG now, but Google really wants to track you.

memco 3y ago

> My favorite part about this is how it basically forces services to accept this as a functional scenario. Maybe some services will accept it, but others will not. When I tried to sign in to Microsoft Teams from Safari yesterday it presented a screen that said that Teams will only load on Safari if I disable tracking prevention for the Teams site. So unless users put additional pressures on services to offer support for Apple those services may just force users to accept tracking one way or another: either by disabling Safari's mitigations or using an alternative client that does not use such mitigations.

blitz_skull 3y ago
Oh no, I can’t use a useless Microsoft product in Safari! Jesting aside, it’s a bad example. No one is changing their browser so they can login to their employer’s shitty surveillance, oops, I mean communication platform.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  In what world aren't they? Their employer's shitty web frameworks are why IE11 has been relevant for so long. Your choices are 1) download the native application (with much more access to your system) 2) follow the instructions 3) open Chrome because realistically you probably already have it anyway or 4) lose your job to prove a point.

tehwebguy 3y ago

I like it! But I imagine we'll see Facebook etc using unique links for everything, without redirects. e.g. Your Facebook page url appears to be facebookdotcom/1234 for me when I click it from the home page, facebookdotcom/5678 when I click it from a thumbnail and facebookdotcom/0987 when someone else clicks it