4 ms·

Just make it mandatory (basically tax) and remove all those garbage ticket systems, people checking the tickets etc... Getting rid of so much overhead

roboben 3y ago
Sadly it is illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing. So that’s that. But then there is GEZ which is basically the same thing just for TV :shrug:
- wolfi1 3y ago
  GEZ? Germany doesn't have the GEZ anymore. and why is it illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing? they still have the "Soli"
  - taejo 3y ago
    But the fee that the GEZ used to collect (the Rundfunkbeitrag) does still exist and that's what a lot of people call it even the entity that collects it has a different name now, which doesn't make a difference to its effect. I believe there are taxes in Germany that are zweckgebunden (legally bound to be used for a particular purpose), but the Soli isn't one: there were political justifications for its introduction, but it goes into the general fund and the government doesn't have to use it for those purposes.
- ulfw 3y ago
  Bullshit. They tax anything and everything in Germany. There's taxes on insurance, taxes on tobacco, taxes on fuel... As a random example here is a tax for sparkling wines. No, not import custom fees. A tax. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer
  - Mesopropithecus 3y ago
    I assume the previous poster meant that you can't tie specific taxes to specific spending buckets in Germany.
    - germanier 3y ago
      But you can (and there are many), it's just called "Beitrag" instead of "Steuer" with the only difference being exactly the binding to a purpose.
  - pimlottc 3y ago
    I don't speak German but the tax you linked appears a tax that is /collected/ on a certain item (sparkling wine). The GP was talking about a tax whose /revenues are spent/ on a specific thing (transit).
kwanbix 3y ago
While I really like the German transport system, and I have been paying it for 5 years, making it mandatory seems too much. What if I don't have a need for it? Or if I barelly use it?
- aziaziazi 3y ago
  My taxes pays for many public infrastructures I don’t use too. Taxes and public subsidies for infrastructures are especially powerful on networks because the output service is spread in many cross dimensional layers of the nation.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    You are telling me that you float in space?
    - aziaziazi 3y ago
      Well we all do float in space, don’t we?
      - kwanbix 3y ago
        If you mean that earth floats in space, yes.
bluGill 3y ago
Only if the trains are given enough budget that there is a train every 5 minutes (or less) at every station, the train routes provide reasonable ability to get anywhere, and the trains run "fast". No train system in the world has all of that, which in turn means they need more money and so free riders harm the system's ability to get people where they want to go.
- aziaziazi 3y ago
  I think gp point was that making it mandatory (or tax) would increase the budget of Deutsche Bahn.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Maybe, but I've never seen anyone with such a proposal serious about giving enough money to run great transit everywhere. By everywhere I include farms in the middle of nowhere as that farmer has a relative somewhere who wants to visit and the lack of great transit pushes that person to a car and then opposing transit subsidies. By getting some money from riders there is at least some inventive to make good compromises.
ulfw 3y ago
Exactly. The stuff gets paid from taxes anyway. Let's be honest. The 49EUR doesn't cover the cost. So why bother with the overhead in the first place? Make it free for everyone to use to hop/on/off as they please, like Luxembourg has done.
- _cenw 3y ago
  It's especially egregious the neoliberals here insisted it only be bookable as a subscription, not as a paper ticket. Mostly so that very low income / homeless people couldn't use it. Almost like they hate the poor or something.

roboben 3y ago

Sadly it is illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing. So that’s that. But then there is GEZ which is basically the same thing just for TV :shrug:

wolfi1 3y ago
GEZ? Germany doesn't have the GEZ anymore. and why is it illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing? they still have the "Soli"
- taejo 3y ago
  But the fee that the GEZ used to collect (the Rundfunkbeitrag) does still exist and that's what a lot of people call it even the entity that collects it has a different name now, which doesn't make a difference to its effect. I believe there are taxes in Germany that are zweckgebunden (legally bound to be used for a particular purpose), but the Soli isn't one: there were political justifications for its introduction, but it goes into the general fund and the government doesn't have to use it for those purposes.
ulfw 3y ago
Bullshit. They tax anything and everything in Germany. There's taxes on insurance, taxes on tobacco, taxes on fuel... As a random example here is a tax for sparkling wines. No, not import custom fees. A tax. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer
- Mesopropithecus 3y ago
  I assume the previous poster meant that you can't tie specific taxes to specific spending buckets in Germany.
  - germanier 3y ago
    But you can (and there are many), it's just called "Beitrag" instead of "Steuer" with the only difference being exactly the binding to a purpose.
- pimlottc 3y ago
  I don't speak German but the tax you linked appears a tax that is /collected/ on a certain item (sparkling wine). The GP was talking about a tax whose /revenues are spent/ on a specific thing (transit).

kwanbix 3y ago

While I really like the German transport system, and I have been paying it for 5 years, making it mandatory seems too much. What if I don't have a need for it? Or if I barelly use it?

aziaziazi 3y ago
My taxes pays for many public infrastructures I don’t use too. Taxes and public subsidies for infrastructures are especially powerful on networks because the output service is spread in many cross dimensional layers of the nation.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  You are telling me that you float in space?
  - aziaziazi 3y ago
    Well we all do float in space, don’t we?
    - kwanbix 3y ago
      If you mean that earth floats in space, yes.

bluGill 3y ago

Only if the trains are given enough budget that there is a train every 5 minutes (or less) at every station, the train routes provide reasonable ability to get anywhere, and the trains run "fast". No train system in the world has all of that, which in turn means they need more money and so free riders harm the system's ability to get people where they want to go.

aziaziazi 3y ago
I think gp point was that making it mandatory (or tax) would increase the budget of Deutsche Bahn.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Maybe, but I've never seen anyone with such a proposal serious about giving enough money to run great transit everywhere. By everywhere I include farms in the middle of nowhere as that farmer has a relative somewhere who wants to visit and the lack of great transit pushes that person to a car and then opposing transit subsidies. By getting some money from riders there is at least some inventive to make good compromises.

ulfw 3y ago

Exactly. The stuff gets paid from taxes anyway. Let's be honest. The 49EUR doesn't cover the cost. So why bother with the overhead in the first place? Make it free for everyone to use to hop/on/off as they please, like Luxembourg has done.

_cenw 3y ago
It's especially egregious the neoliberals here insisted it only be bookable as a subscription, not as a paper ticket. Mostly so that very low income / homeless people couldn't use it. Almost like they hate the poor or something.