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Coming from drinking Irish milk, American milk already tastes like water. I can understand UHT being interchangeable if the baseline product is already bland.

ericd 3y ago
American milk is very varied, sounds like you’re describing plastic gallon jug skim milk. If you want something a bit heartier, you can probably find creamline milk from a local farm.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Plastic litres jug milk sold in Ireland and the UK is what both commenters were comparing to the bland UHT milk. Generally everything is available in the USA, but there are some surprising cases where the default product is of noticeable lower quality than the default in Europe.
  - ericd 3y ago
    Yeah, I’d say that the default in the US is generally cheaper and lower quality than the default in France, at least (no experience with Ireland).
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      If you spend the same amount in US as France (milk _is_ more expensive in France), is the quality the same? This comment only seems to confirm that cheaper milk will be worse.
      - Symbiote 3y ago
        Just with https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=8 https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings... the price is within 10%.
    - esperent 3y ago
      I would say that default dairy and meat quality is roughly the same in France and Ireland. France has an edge on bread and pastries, while fruit and veg depends on the season but because so much more has to be shipped into Ireland, France gets the edge there too.
  - WJW 3y ago
    Not gonna comment on something as subjective as "quality", but just the taste of Coca Cola is noticeably different in the US vs at home in the EU.
    - scrlk 3y ago
      High-fructose corn syrup is used as the sweetener in US Coca-Cola, rather than sugar.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  I have been reliably informed that homogenized dairy products increase inflammation, and so I've made efforts to purchase creamline products instead. It's been revelatory, the difference and enjoyment I derive from it. I've found Straus Creamery makes amazing milk and yogurt products. Sometimes the milk comes in a glass half-gallon with a $2 deposit and I return them to the store. It's kind of a game to scoop out a big plug of cream from the narrow-mouth bottle! I guess you're supposed to mix it into coffee or tea, but I just kind of eat it. Yummy. Also, this kind of milk seems to keep for a good bit of time and it goes sour very, very slowly. The fresh scent is very delicate. The yogurt is likewise amazing. You can get European or you can get Greek, if you don't want to pay for water. I get the plain stuff and again, it's got delicate flavors and odor, not the real tang of plain mass-produced yogurt. It's great to mix with my Muesli or just have a few medicinal tablespoons every day. In fact, it's difficult to stop once I've started spooning it out.
  - thsksbd 3y ago
    So i don't like homogenization because it destroys the mouth feel. So i am sympathetic to what you are saying. However, what would the mechanism be for increased inflammation caused by homogenization? Do you have a source? I'm not saying you're not correct, but I'm more inclined to believe that there is a hidden, highly correlated variable at play.
    - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      Regardless of whether it has harmful effects or not, the fact is that homogenization is a wholly cosmetic operation; it's done because urban middle-class consumers were supposedly grossed out by solids floating in their milk and having to deal with the separate elements; it's done more or less in denial of the nature of milk in its natural state. There's no benefit, other than looks and feels, that homogenization offers, so why go through that process, expense, and bother if it's pointless, and may in fact be harmful? Just put the milk on the shelves. I feel that the cream is lovely and I'm thankful that it's separate so it can be handled appropriately.
  - __float 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
crazygringo 3y ago
Are you just talking about normal milk in Ireland like this? https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/en-IE/products/250005606 https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/en-IE/products/250005606 It's essentially identical to whole milk in the US. Nutritionally, compositionally, and flavor-wise. I really can't imagine what you're talking about "tasting like water" unless you switched to skim milk or 2% in the US without realizing it?
- reillyse 3y ago
  Nope. American milk is pasteurized to a much higher temp. It lasts way longer. Irish goes off in days, US milk will last a month in the fridge. The extra pasteurization effects the taste and flavor.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    I can't find any evidence to support that. High-Temperature, Short-Time (HSTS) Pasteurization appears to be the standard in both Ireland [1] and the US [2] -- 71.7°C / 161°F for 15 seconds. And I can tell you from personal experience that US milk goes bad in days as well, and has for decades. I don't know where you're getting the idea that it lasts a month in the fridge. There are real differences in some foods between the US and Europe, e.g. American eggs are washed while European ones aren't. But fresh milk from the supermarket appears to be very much identical. [1] https://ndc.ie/accordion/what-is-pasteurisation/ https://ndc.ie/accordion/what-is-pasteurisation/ [2] https://www.usdairy.com/news-articles/why-is-milk-pasteurized-4-questions-answered https://www.usdairy.com/news-articles/why-is-milk-pasteurize...
    - bitdivision 3y ago
      I also looked into this and couldn't find any reliable information on what pasteurisation method was actually used in the UK. I did find that US allows the use of hormones to increase milk production. Possibly that's a factor? But very difficult to tell.
      - 3y ago
thsksbd 3y ago
I think mikk is disgusting, but even the few times I've tried it in the USA it's obvious there's something wrong, lower quality, with it. Perhaps it's the homogenization. Too aggressive perhaps? Or maybe the comparatively poorer diet/aggressive production schedule? Not that Im surprised though. The one thing I throughly dislike about the US (otherwise I love it) is the low foods standards. My local WF doesn't hold a candle to the quality of any grocery story in any country Ive lived in.

ericd 3y ago

American milk is very varied, sounds like you’re describing plastic gallon jug skim milk. If you want something a bit heartier, you can probably find creamline milk from a local farm.

Symbiote 3y ago
Plastic litres jug milk sold in Ireland and the UK is what both commenters were comparing to the bland UHT milk. Generally everything is available in the USA, but there are some surprising cases where the default product is of noticeable lower quality than the default in Europe.
- ericd 3y ago
  Yeah, I’d say that the default in the US is generally cheaper and lower quality than the default in France, at least (no experience with Ireland).
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    If you spend the same amount in US as France (milk _is_ more expensive in France), is the quality the same? This comment only seems to confirm that cheaper milk will be worse.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      Just with https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=8 https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings... the price is within 10%.
  - esperent 3y ago
    I would say that default dairy and meat quality is roughly the same in France and Ireland. France has an edge on bread and pastries, while fruit and veg depends on the season but because so much more has to be shipped into Ireland, France gets the edge there too.
- WJW 3y ago
  Not gonna comment on something as subjective as "quality", but just the taste of Coca Cola is noticeably different in the US vs at home in the EU.
  - scrlk 3y ago
    High-fructose corn syrup is used as the sweetener in US Coca-Cola, rather than sugar.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
I have been reliably informed that homogenized dairy products increase inflammation, and so I've made efforts to purchase creamline products instead. It's been revelatory, the difference and enjoyment I derive from it. I've found Straus Creamery makes amazing milk and yogurt products. Sometimes the milk comes in a glass half-gallon with a $2 deposit and I return them to the store. It's kind of a game to scoop out a big plug of cream from the narrow-mouth bottle! I guess you're supposed to mix it into coffee or tea, but I just kind of eat it. Yummy. Also, this kind of milk seems to keep for a good bit of time and it goes sour very, very slowly. The fresh scent is very delicate. The yogurt is likewise amazing. You can get European or you can get Greek, if you don't want to pay for water. I get the plain stuff and again, it's got delicate flavors and odor, not the real tang of plain mass-produced yogurt. It's great to mix with my Muesli or just have a few medicinal tablespoons every day. In fact, it's difficult to stop once I've started spooning it out.
- thsksbd 3y ago
  So i don't like homogenization because it destroys the mouth feel. So i am sympathetic to what you are saying. However, what would the mechanism be for increased inflammation caused by homogenization? Do you have a source? I'm not saying you're not correct, but I'm more inclined to believe that there is a hidden, highly correlated variable at play.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    Regardless of whether it has harmful effects or not, the fact is that homogenization is a wholly cosmetic operation; it's done because urban middle-class consumers were supposedly grossed out by solids floating in their milk and having to deal with the separate elements; it's done more or less in denial of the nature of milk in its natural state. There's no benefit, other than looks and feels, that homogenization offers, so why go through that process, expense, and bother if it's pointless, and may in fact be harmful? Just put the milk on the shelves. I feel that the cream is lovely and I'm thankful that it's separate so it can be handled appropriately.
- __float 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

crazygringo 3y ago

Are you just talking about normal milk in Ireland like this? https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/en-IE/products/250005606 https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/en-IE/products/250005606 It's essentially identical to whole milk in the US. Nutritionally, compositionally, and flavor-wise. I really can't imagine what you're talking about "tasting like water" unless you switched to skim milk or 2% in the US without realizing it?

reillyse 3y ago
Nope. American milk is pasteurized to a much higher temp. It lasts way longer. Irish goes off in days, US milk will last a month in the fridge. The extra pasteurization effects the taste and flavor.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  I can't find any evidence to support that. High-Temperature, Short-Time (HSTS) Pasteurization appears to be the standard in both Ireland [1] and the US [2] -- 71.7°C / 161°F for 15 seconds. And I can tell you from personal experience that US milk goes bad in days as well, and has for decades. I don't know where you're getting the idea that it lasts a month in the fridge. There are real differences in some foods between the US and Europe, e.g. American eggs are washed while European ones aren't. But fresh milk from the supermarket appears to be very much identical. [1] https://ndc.ie/accordion/what-is-pasteurisation/ https://ndc.ie/accordion/what-is-pasteurisation/ [2] https://www.usdairy.com/news-articles/why-is-milk-pasteurized-4-questions-answered https://www.usdairy.com/news-articles/why-is-milk-pasteurize...
  - bitdivision 3y ago
    I also looked into this and couldn't find any reliable information on what pasteurisation method was actually used in the UK. I did find that US allows the use of hormones to increase milk production. Possibly that's a factor? But very difficult to tell.
    - 3y ago

thsksbd 3y ago

I think mikk is disgusting, but even the few times I've tried it in the USA it's obvious there's something wrong, lower quality, with it. Perhaps it's the homogenization. Too aggressive perhaps? Or maybe the comparatively poorer diet/aggressive production schedule? Not that Im surprised though. The one thing I throughly dislike about the US (otherwise I love it) is the low foods standards. My local WF doesn't hold a candle to the quality of any grocery story in any country Ive lived in.