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Google also takes a 30% cut on apps. Microsoft takes 15% on Windows apps. Would that mean that Google and Microsoft are doing the same thing? And while Apple d

Google also takes a 30% cut on apps. Microsoft takes 15% on Windows apps. Would that mean that Google and Microsoft are doing the same thing? And while Apple does require Google and Microsoft to use WebKit for their iOS browser apps, it's a rendering engine. And you can set Chrome/Edge as defaults on both iOS and macOS. Tell me how this limits real browser choice.

cma 3y ago
> Tell me how this limits real browser choice. How does Mozilla implement extensions on iOS >_<? It is much more than the rendering engine they are forced to use.
- notaustinpowers 3y ago
  Chrome doesn't even let you install extensions on Android. And for Firefox on Android it's a buggy workaround that doesn't even work half the time. This isn't just an Apple thing.
  - yesbabyyes 3y ago
    Wait, how is Firefox for Android a buggy workaround? I use it exclusively, with uBlock Origin, and it works great,every single time.
    - notaustinpowers 3y ago
      That's one extension, there are thousands that may or may not work. It was buggy the way Firefox used to handle extensions. The current Firefox extensions are ones that are made specifically for Firefox on Android, they're not direct extensions for the Chromium browser. It's another silo'd set of extensions separate from Chrome. So iOS allows extensions only for Safari from the App Store. Android Chrome doesn't allow extensions at all. Android Firefox allows some extensions that were made for Firefox on Android.
      - cma 3y ago
        Aside from extensions, try to do what Brave does on Android on iOS: you can't. The limitations are not just the renderer. On Android they can ship their own chromium.
  - cma 3y ago
    How is Mozilla limited by the platform from doing it better on Android? You simply can't do it with the mandatory WebKit stuff.
wernercd 3y ago
> And you can set Chrome/Edge as defaults on both iOS and macOS. Tell me how this limits real browser choice. Chrome on iOS is a skinned Safari. It's not real Chrome. Same for Edge. How is forcing a shitty and limited "rendering engine" not limiting choice? At risk of regulators forcing the issue, rumor says it may be changing but you are being disengenous if you don't think this isn't the same level of BS as IE bundling with Windows. "But we can skin IE to look like chrome" isn't choice https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ > "For example, the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) found that: > Apple bans alternatives to its own browser engine on its mobile devices; a restriction that is unique to Apple. The CMA is concerned this severely limits the potential for rival browsers to differentiate themselves from Safari (for example, on features such as speed and functionality) and limits Apple’s incentives to invest in its browser engine. > This restriction also seriously inhibits the capability of web apps – apps that run on a browser rather than having to be individually downloaded – depriving consumers and businesses of the full benefits of this innovative technology." edit: and I've ignored Mac OS because the conversation is clearly about iOS. If Mac OS had the same restrictions as the iOS (IE: you can install apps outside of the app store on your laptop) then we'd have the same conversation there.
blululu 3y ago
A browser is much more than a rendering engine. Support for new features like openXR is something that iOS users are not allowed to choose.

cma 3y ago

> Tell me how this limits real browser choice. How does Mozilla implement extensions on iOS >_<? It is much more than the rendering engine they are forced to use.

notaustinpowers 3y ago
Chrome doesn't even let you install extensions on Android. And for Firefox on Android it's a buggy workaround that doesn't even work half the time. This isn't just an Apple thing.
- yesbabyyes 3y ago
  Wait, how is Firefox for Android a buggy workaround? I use it exclusively, with uBlock Origin, and it works great,every single time.
  - notaustinpowers 3y ago
    That's one extension, there are thousands that may or may not work. It was buggy the way Firefox used to handle extensions. The current Firefox extensions are ones that are made specifically for Firefox on Android, they're not direct extensions for the Chromium browser. It's another silo'd set of extensions separate from Chrome. So iOS allows extensions only for Safari from the App Store. Android Chrome doesn't allow extensions at all. Android Firefox allows some extensions that were made for Firefox on Android.
    - cma 3y ago
      Aside from extensions, try to do what Brave does on Android on iOS: you can't. The limitations are not just the renderer. On Android they can ship their own chromium.
- cma 3y ago
  How is Mozilla limited by the platform from doing it better on Android? You simply can't do it with the mandatory WebKit stuff.

wernercd 3y ago

> And you can set Chrome/Edge as defaults on both iOS and macOS. Tell me how this limits real browser choice. Chrome on iOS is a skinned Safari. It's not real Chrome. Same for Edge. How is forcing a shitty and limited "rendering engine" not limiting choice? At risk of regulators forcing the issue, rumor says it may be changing but you are being disengenous if you don't think this isn't the same level of BS as IE bundling with Windows. "But we can skin IE to look like chrome" isn't choice https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ > "For example, the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) found that: > Apple bans alternatives to its own browser engine on its mobile devices; a restriction that is unique to Apple. The CMA is concerned this severely limits the potential for rival browsers to differentiate themselves from Safari (for example, on features such as speed and functionality) and limits Apple’s incentives to invest in its browser engine. > This restriction also seriously inhibits the capability of web apps – apps that run on a browser rather than having to be individually downloaded – depriving consumers and businesses of the full benefits of this innovative technology." edit: and I've ignored Mac OS because the conversation is clearly about iOS. If Mac OS had the same restrictions as the iOS (IE: you can install apps outside of the app store on your laptop) then we'd have the same conversation there.

blululu 3y ago

A browser is much more than a rendering engine. Support for new features like openXR is something that iOS users are not allowed to choose.