4 ms·

American healthcare is a mess because of religious shit like this.

thsksbd 3y ago
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petsfed 3y ago
Its interesting because its a very specific, recent, and almost uniquely American religious concept, that's written into virtually every aspect of our culture. That is, it seems like nowhere else has the idea of purification through suffering really taken hold at such a widespread level for so long. I'd argue its because its just the flipside of the Prosperity Gospel. If you assume that one's physical conditions are a reflection of one's spiritual choices, then your first move when someone says "I'm in pain, please help me with my pain" is to ask "What have you done to deserve this pain? I won't remove God-given pain; if you deserve it, it would be a sin to do so", instead of "Here's something to make the pain manageable while we figure out how to remove the source of the pain".
- bnjms 3y ago
  > I'd argue its because its just the flipside of the Prosperity Gospel. I loathe the prosperity gospel too, and never miss a chance to blame its preachers where I can. But in this case I think glorification of suffering can’t be blamed on them because suffering was also fetishized by mother Teresa. It does seem to be a uniquely American problem though.
  - petsfed 3y ago
    I don't disagree that others outside of the US have taken up the cause of the holiness of suffering. I'm arguing that only the US has taken it and injected it into every aspect of our culture, because we have taken the Prosperity Gospel and injected it into every aspect of our culture. Scratchy robes for monks in certain orders has long been a thing all over the world. But successfully banning comfortable clothing for all, regardless of religiosity, is really more of an American thing.
- wpietri 3y ago
  I agree it's terrible and very American, but I don't think it's recent. There's a good bit in this Backstory podcast where they talk about how part of the shift to sleeping straight through the night (as opposed to the previous behavior of first and second sleep) was partly driven by puritan busybodies (from the temperance movement, I think?) who thought that it was virtuous to sleep a bare minimum or less: https://backstoryradio.org/shows/on-the-clock-4/ https://backstoryradio.org/shows/on-the-clock-4/ And that of course goes back to the Puritans around at America's founding, who were deeply opposed to anybody having fun or enjoying themselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritans#Behavioral_regulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritans#Behavioral_regulation... I also recall reading of Calvinists who came to American in the mid-1800s to be free of such things as vaccines and insurance, because they thought those things interfered with God's plan. A plan, apparently, wherein a lot of people suffered while others stood around and quietly gloated that they were god's favorites.
canadianfella 3y ago
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shigawire 3y ago
It's not religious - it's an overcorrection based on rampant over prescription of pain killers for years.
- tempestn 3y ago
  It might be both. An over-correction made more likely in part due to religious beliefs.
  - refurb 3y ago
    Go to Europe and you don’t get pain medication unless you’re in the hospital. Is that due to religiousness too?
    - jhugo 3y ago
      > Go to Europe and you don’t get pain medication unless you’re in the hospital. Where on Earth did you get this idea?
      - refurb 3y ago
        Go look at opioid prescriptions by country. Europe is way lower than the US. Plenty of anecdotes about how hard it is to get opioid prescriptions in Europe. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just it's lower than the US, yet less religious, which pretty much blows up OP's thesis.
        jhugo 3y ago
        But you said "pain medication", many forms of which are sold OTC in Europe just like basically everywhere else. Now that you've narrowed it to "opioids", sure...
        Gordonjcp 3y ago
        Opioids are only really safe to use in a hospital, by and large. The exception seems to be fentanyl, which gets handed out to old ladies with dodgy hips who chug it like milk.
refurb 3y ago
Huh? The country where you got Oxycotin for a headache only a decade ago doesn’t prescribe pain relief because of religion?

[dead]

Its interesting because its a very specific, recent, and almost uniquely American religious concept, that's written into virtually every aspect of our culture. That is, it seems like nowhere else has the idea of purification through suffering really taken hold at such a widespread level for so long. I'd argue its because its just the flipside of the Prosperity Gospel. If you assume that one's physical conditions are a reflection of one's spiritual choices, then your first move when someone says "I'm in pain, please help me with my pain" is to ask "What have you done to deserve this pain? I won't remove God-given pain; if you deserve it, it would be a sin to do so", instead of "Here's something to make the pain manageable while we figure out how to remove the source of the pain".

bnjms 3y ago
> I'd argue its because its just the flipside of the Prosperity Gospel. I loathe the prosperity gospel too, and never miss a chance to blame its preachers where I can. But in this case I think glorification of suffering can’t be blamed on them because suffering was also fetishized by mother Teresa. It does seem to be a uniquely American problem though.
- petsfed 3y ago
  I don't disagree that others outside of the US have taken up the cause of the holiness of suffering. I'm arguing that only the US has taken it and injected it into every aspect of our culture, because we have taken the Prosperity Gospel and injected it into every aspect of our culture. Scratchy robes for monks in certain orders has long been a thing all over the world. But successfully banning comfortable clothing for all, regardless of religiosity, is really more of an American thing.
wpietri 3y ago
I agree it's terrible and very American, but I don't think it's recent. There's a good bit in this Backstory podcast where they talk about how part of the shift to sleeping straight through the night (as opposed to the previous behavior of first and second sleep) was partly driven by puritan busybodies (from the temperance movement, I think?) who thought that it was virtuous to sleep a bare minimum or less: https://backstoryradio.org/shows/on-the-clock-4/ https://backstoryradio.org/shows/on-the-clock-4/ And that of course goes back to the Puritans around at America's founding, who were deeply opposed to anybody having fun or enjoying themselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritans#Behavioral_regulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritans#Behavioral_regulation... I also recall reading of Calvinists who came to American in the mid-1800s to be free of such things as vaccines and insurance, because they thought those things interfered with God's plan. A plan, apparently, wherein a lot of people suffered while others stood around and quietly gloated that they were god's favorites.

canadianfella 3y ago

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shigawire 3y ago

It's not religious - it's an overcorrection based on rampant over prescription of pain killers for years.

tempestn 3y ago
It might be both. An over-correction made more likely in part due to religious beliefs.
- refurb 3y ago
  Go to Europe and you don’t get pain medication unless you’re in the hospital. Is that due to religiousness too?
  - jhugo 3y ago
    > Go to Europe and you don’t get pain medication unless you’re in the hospital. Where on Earth did you get this idea?
    - refurb 3y ago
      Go look at opioid prescriptions by country. Europe is way lower than the US. Plenty of anecdotes about how hard it is to get opioid prescriptions in Europe. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just it's lower than the US, yet less religious, which pretty much blows up OP's thesis.
      - jhugo 3y ago
        But you said "pain medication", many forms of which are sold OTC in Europe just like basically everywhere else. Now that you've narrowed it to "opioids", sure...
      - Gordonjcp 3y ago
        Opioids are only really safe to use in a hospital, by and large. The exception seems to be fentanyl, which gets handed out to old ladies with dodgy hips who chug it like milk.

refurb 3y ago

Huh? The country where you got Oxycotin for a headache only a decade ago doesn’t prescribe pain relief because of religion?