4 ms·

You're right it's much worse in China, but if Zuck did in fact tell regulators to "pound sand" on national TV, I think it's pretty likely Meta would start to se

by paddw 3y ago

You're right it's much worse in China, but if Zuck did in fact tell regulators to "pound sand" on national TV, I think it's pretty likely Meta would start to see some new interpretations of laws enforced against it... There is no country in the world where you can insult powerful people for free

mrguyorama 3y ago
They can reinterpret existing laws slightly more aggressively, and they can make new laws that Zuck would then have to continue breaking and go after Meta for that, but unlike China, they cannot arbitrarily put him in jail for something his business does, and they cannot change how Meta works without writing new legislation that would absolutely get thrown out by the Supreme court. That's the entire point though. The relationship between Meta and the State is governed predominantly by letter of law and the system of the court. It's not perfect, but it absolutely puts limitations on government retribution towards a company that does something workers of the State do not like, but is legal. In China, the relationship between a private company (in as much as that can exist in China) and the State is governed ENTIRELY by the whims of the party. There is no way to limit the party to things that are "legal", because laws do not constrain the party.
Nextgrid 3y ago
> There is no country in the world where you can insult powerful people for free Zuck is above every "powerful person" he met at that hearing. Those people owe their position, careers and livelihoods to votes and ultimately public opinion. Guess who nowadays controls a large chunk of humanity's social fabric? Piss him off and you may as well be dead as far as your voter base is concerned, since nobody on Facebook properties will ever hear anything about you (on the other hand they will hear plenty about your competitors).
toss1 3y ago
Stop trying to make a false equivalence. Jack Ma forking disappeared for three months [0]. Then lost a huge amount of money and influence over his empire, and he has been extremely quiet since then. It is not hard to see that had not complied, he would still be disappeared. In contrast, look at the US. Disney publicly tells a state gov and POTUS candidate that his proposed law is bad. Gov, with his entire political party apparatus retaliates. Disney repeatedly counters every move and comes out on top, massively embarrassing the state governor. China is a nation ruled by a dictatorship/authoritarian state. The US is, for the time being, ruled by law (there are those trying to change that). In a democratic govt, all branches of govt (legislative, judicial, executive), and all areas of society (industry, press, academia, non-profits/NGOs, clubs, sports, etc.) are independent. In an authoritarian system, all of the branches of government and parts of society are bent to the will of the dictator/party. The distinction is critical. [0]
NickC25 3y ago
Except those regulators and those who interpret laws are essentially doing so at the public's behest, as they are elected officials, or at the very least, appointed by elected officials. Those elected officials have 100 billion rea$on$ to not go after someone who insulted them. Zuck is bigger than all of those people combined. He's the powerful person, not some schmuck in congress who may or may not be in that same seat in a year or two. He could easily say "oh, you want to come after me because I talked back to you? OK, well, don't be surprised if your opponent in your reelection campaign just got a nice $100 million dollar boost" or "hey, yeah I said some mean things to you, but how about you come and work here at Meta once your term is over? I'll make it worth your while" and just like that all regulatory pressure is done away with. In China, The Party can just say "we're bigger than you, so what we say goes", and that's it - no recourse, no independent watchdog, no independent judiciary, nothing. The Party owns your ass, and you'd best be thankful for that.

by paddw 3y ago

mrguyorama 3y ago

They can reinterpret existing laws slightly more aggressively, and they can make new laws that Zuck would then have to continue breaking and go after Meta for that, but unlike China, they cannot arbitrarily put him in jail for something his business does, and they cannot change how Meta works without writing new legislation that would absolutely get thrown out by the Supreme court. That's the entire point though. The relationship between Meta and the State is governed predominantly by letter of law and the system of the court. It's not perfect, but it absolutely puts limitations on government retribution towards a company that does something workers of the State do not like, but is legal. In China, the relationship between a private company (in as much as that can exist in China) and the State is governed ENTIRELY by the whims of the party. There is no way to limit the party to things that are "legal", because laws do not constrain the party.

Nextgrid 3y ago

> There is no country in the world where you can insult powerful people for free Zuck is above every "powerful person" he met at that hearing. Those people owe their position, careers and livelihoods to votes and ultimately public opinion. Guess who nowadays controls a large chunk of humanity's social fabric? Piss him off and you may as well be dead as far as your voter base is concerned, since nobody on Facebook properties will ever hear anything about you (on the other hand they will hear plenty about your competitors).

toss1 3y ago

Stop trying to make a false equivalence. Jack Ma forking disappeared for three months [0]. Then lost a huge amount of money and influence over his empire, and he has been extremely quiet since then. It is not hard to see that had not complied, he would still be disappeared. In contrast, look at the US. Disney publicly tells a state gov and POTUS candidate that his proposed law is bad. Gov, with his entire political party apparatus retaliates. Disney repeatedly counters every move and comes out on top, massively embarrassing the state governor. China is a nation ruled by a dictatorship/authoritarian state. The US is, for the time being, ruled by law (there are those trying to change that). In a democratic govt, all branches of govt (legislative, judicial, executive), and all areas of society (industry, press, academia, non-profits/NGOs, clubs, sports, etc.) are independent. In an authoritarian system, all of the branches of government and parts of society are bent to the will of the dictator/party. The distinction is critical. [0]

NickC25 3y ago

Except those regulators and those who interpret laws are essentially doing so at the public's behest, as they are elected officials, or at the very least, appointed by elected officials. Those elected officials have 100 billion rea$on$ to not go after someone who insulted them. Zuck is bigger than all of those people combined. He's the powerful person, not some schmuck in congress who may or may not be in that same seat in a year or two. He could easily say "oh, you want to come after me because I talked back to you? OK, well, don't be surprised if your opponent in your reelection campaign just got a nice $100 million dollar boost" or "hey, yeah I said some mean things to you, but how about you come and work here at Meta once your term is over? I'll make it worth your while" and just like that all regulatory pressure is done away with. In China, The Party can just say "we're bigger than you, so what we say goes", and that's it - no recourse, no independent watchdog, no independent judiciary, nothing. The Party owns your ass, and you'd best be thankful for that.