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"I feel like the user becomes a pawn" A company that makes a 30% cut on apps using customers as a pawn to make a worse browser experience pushing people into u

"I feel like the user becomes a pawn" A company that makes a 30% cut on apps using customers as a pawn to make a worse browser experience pushing people into using app store apps? Nothing is "less intrusive"... it's simply Apple making sure they get a larger cut of a larger market. It's also why they enforce a shitty Safari unto their customers instead of allowing real browser choice. They are the new MS bundling shitty software to harm competitors and limit consumer choice.

notaustinpowers 3y ago
Google also takes a 30% cut on apps. Microsoft takes 15% on Windows apps. Would that mean that Google and Microsoft are doing the same thing? And while Apple does require Google and Microsoft to use WebKit for their iOS browser apps, it's a rendering engine. And you can set Chrome/Edge as defaults on both iOS and macOS. Tell me how this limits real browser choice.
- cma 3y ago
  > Tell me how this limits real browser choice. How does Mozilla implement extensions on iOS >_<? It is much more than the rendering engine they are forced to use.
  - notaustinpowers 3y ago
    Chrome doesn't even let you install extensions on Android. And for Firefox on Android it's a buggy workaround that doesn't even work half the time. This isn't just an Apple thing.
    - yesbabyyes 3y ago
      Wait, how is Firefox for Android a buggy workaround? I use it exclusively, with uBlock Origin, and it works great,every single time.
      - notaustinpowers 3y ago
        That's one extension, there are thousands that may or may not work. It was buggy the way Firefox used to handle extensions. The current Firefox extensions are ones that are made specifically for Firefox on Android, they're not direct extensions for the Chromium browser. It's another silo'd set of extensions separate from Chrome. So iOS allows extensions only for Safari from the App Store. Android Chrome doesn't allow extensions at all. Android Firefox allows some extensions that were made for Firefox on Android.
        cma 3y ago
        Aside from extensions, try to do what Brave does on Android on iOS: you can't. The limitations are not just the renderer. On Android they can ship their own chromium.
    - cma 3y ago
      How is Mozilla limited by the platform from doing it better on Android? You simply can't do it with the mandatory WebKit stuff.
- wernercd 3y ago
  > And you can set Chrome/Edge as defaults on both iOS and macOS. Tell me how this limits real browser choice. Chrome on iOS is a skinned Safari. It's not real Chrome. Same for Edge. How is forcing a shitty and limited "rendering engine" not limiting choice? At risk of regulators forcing the issue, rumor says it may be changing but you are being disengenous if you don't think this isn't the same level of BS as IE bundling with Windows. "But we can skin IE to look like chrome" isn't choice https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ > "For example, the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) found that: > Apple bans alternatives to its own browser engine on its mobile devices; a restriction that is unique to Apple. The CMA is concerned this severely limits the potential for rival browsers to differentiate themselves from Safari (for example, on features such as speed and functionality) and limits Apple’s incentives to invest in its browser engine. > This restriction also seriously inhibits the capability of web apps – apps that run on a browser rather than having to be individually downloaded – depriving consumers and businesses of the full benefits of this innovative technology." edit: and I've ignored Mac OS because the conversation is clearly about iOS. If Mac OS had the same restrictions as the iOS (IE: you can install apps outside of the app store on your laptop) then we'd have the same conversation there.
- blululu 3y ago
  A browser is much more than a rendering engine. Support for new features like openXR is something that iOS users are not allowed to choose.
can16358p 3y ago
Shitty is subjective. I'd personally pick Safari hands down over Chrome or Firefox or anything else. Also many other companies follow a similar pattern, if not worse.
scarface_74 3y ago
It came out in the Epic trial that 80% of App Store revenue comes from games. They would never be in the browser anyway. Then most other apps that could just be websites don’t monetize through the App Store.
- wernercd 3y ago
  "They would never be in the browser" If companies can install stuff outside of the app store to save a 30% a LARGE number of companies would absolutely do so. To say hamstringing the browser on iOS isn't a calculated choice to say "but you can install webapps* (* with shitty safari)" and then completely cock block web browser choice isn't a 100% calculated choice to limit consumer choice is a disingenuous lie. "80%" You think that Apple isn't going to hold onto the 20% come hook or crook? in any means necessary - including locking you to the App Store and the 30% cut - despite the fact that alternative payment methods are completely reasonable? and how much of that 80% is through games on the app store that REQUIRES a cut through their ham fisted and unreasonable restrictions? That's even more reason to give consumers and companies options outside of the app store and the mafia requirement for a cut.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > If companies can install stuff outside of the app store to save a 30% a LARGE number of companies would absolutely do so. Again your banking app and even apps like Facebook and Reddit and most of the other apps that are not games, don’t monetize through the App Store. Even the large subscription streaming services like Netflix and Spotify don’t allow in-app purchases of subscriptions and haven’t for years. > payment methods are completely reasonable? and how much of that 80% is through games on the app store that REQUIRES a cut through their ham fisted and unreasonable restrictions? Your rant has absolutely nothing to do with whether if Safari was “better” would most of the revenue from the App Store - ie games - would move to the web. That same 30% is what Google charges and around the same as what console maker charges. Epic tried to move out of the Google Play store. It was an abject failure. Why do you think that Android app makers try to monetize outside of the Play Store?

notaustinpowers 3y ago

Google also takes a 30% cut on apps. Microsoft takes 15% on Windows apps. Would that mean that Google and Microsoft are doing the same thing? And while Apple does require Google and Microsoft to use WebKit for their iOS browser apps, it's a rendering engine. And you can set Chrome/Edge as defaults on both iOS and macOS. Tell me how this limits real browser choice.

cma 3y ago
> Tell me how this limits real browser choice. How does Mozilla implement extensions on iOS >_<? It is much more than the rendering engine they are forced to use.
- notaustinpowers 3y ago
  Chrome doesn't even let you install extensions on Android. And for Firefox on Android it's a buggy workaround that doesn't even work half the time. This isn't just an Apple thing.
  - yesbabyyes 3y ago
    Wait, how is Firefox for Android a buggy workaround? I use it exclusively, with uBlock Origin, and it works great,every single time.
    - notaustinpowers 3y ago
      That's one extension, there are thousands that may or may not work. It was buggy the way Firefox used to handle extensions. The current Firefox extensions are ones that are made specifically for Firefox on Android, they're not direct extensions for the Chromium browser. It's another silo'd set of extensions separate from Chrome. So iOS allows extensions only for Safari from the App Store. Android Chrome doesn't allow extensions at all. Android Firefox allows some extensions that were made for Firefox on Android.
      - cma 3y ago
        Aside from extensions, try to do what Brave does on Android on iOS: you can't. The limitations are not just the renderer. On Android they can ship their own chromium.
  - cma 3y ago
    How is Mozilla limited by the platform from doing it better on Android? You simply can't do it with the mandatory WebKit stuff.
wernercd 3y ago
> And you can set Chrome/Edge as defaults on both iOS and macOS. Tell me how this limits real browser choice. Chrome on iOS is a skinned Safari. It's not real Chrome. Same for Edge. How is forcing a shitty and limited "rendering engine" not limiting choice? At risk of regulators forcing the issue, rumor says it may be changing but you are being disengenous if you don't think this isn't the same level of BS as IE bundling with Windows. "But we can skin IE to look like chrome" isn't choice https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ > "For example, the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) found that: > Apple bans alternatives to its own browser engine on its mobile devices; a restriction that is unique to Apple. The CMA is concerned this severely limits the potential for rival browsers to differentiate themselves from Safari (for example, on features such as speed and functionality) and limits Apple’s incentives to invest in its browser engine. > This restriction also seriously inhibits the capability of web apps – apps that run on a browser rather than having to be individually downloaded – depriving consumers and businesses of the full benefits of this innovative technology." edit: and I've ignored Mac OS because the conversation is clearly about iOS. If Mac OS had the same restrictions as the iOS (IE: you can install apps outside of the app store on your laptop) then we'd have the same conversation there.
blululu 3y ago
A browser is much more than a rendering engine. Support for new features like openXR is something that iOS users are not allowed to choose.

can16358p 3y ago

Shitty is subjective. I'd personally pick Safari hands down over Chrome or Firefox or anything else. Also many other companies follow a similar pattern, if not worse.

scarface_74 3y ago

It came out in the Epic trial that 80% of App Store revenue comes from games. They would never be in the browser anyway. Then most other apps that could just be websites don’t monetize through the App Store.

wernercd 3y ago
"They would never be in the browser" If companies can install stuff outside of the app store to save a 30% a LARGE number of companies would absolutely do so. To say hamstringing the browser on iOS isn't a calculated choice to say "but you can install webapps* (* with shitty safari)" and then completely cock block web browser choice isn't a 100% calculated choice to limit consumer choice is a disingenuous lie. "80%" You think that Apple isn't going to hold onto the 20% come hook or crook? in any means necessary - including locking you to the App Store and the 30% cut - despite the fact that alternative payment methods are completely reasonable? and how much of that 80% is through games on the app store that REQUIRES a cut through their ham fisted and unreasonable restrictions? That's even more reason to give consumers and companies options outside of the app store and the mafia requirement for a cut.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > If companies can install stuff outside of the app store to save a 30% a LARGE number of companies would absolutely do so. Again your banking app and even apps like Facebook and Reddit and most of the other apps that are not games, don’t monetize through the App Store. Even the large subscription streaming services like Netflix and Spotify don’t allow in-app purchases of subscriptions and haven’t for years. > payment methods are completely reasonable? and how much of that 80% is through games on the app store that REQUIRES a cut through their ham fisted and unreasonable restrictions? Your rant has absolutely nothing to do with whether if Safari was “better” would most of the revenue from the App Store - ie games - would move to the web. That same 30% is what Google charges and around the same as what console maker charges. Epic tried to move out of the Google Play store. It was an abject failure. Why do you think that Android app makers try to monetize outside of the Play Store?