4 ms·

"Digital-only" = By smartphone app OR by smartcard, i.e. a card like a credit card with a chip and your personal unique ID stored on that. In other words: You

"Digital-only" = By smartphone app OR by smartcard, i.e. a card like a credit card with a chip and your personal unique ID stored on that. In other words: You cannot get a plain old paper ticket without personal information, the ticket is like a cookie which identifies you as a user and thus allows you to be tracked. Disclaimer: Not a resident of Germany.

schroeding 3y ago
> and thus allows you to be tracked While true, something to note is that german train and metro stations, in general, have no ticket barriers. Tickets are only checked by staff on trains, on a (very) random basis for local / metro trains. I've had months in which my ticket wasn't checked at all while using it every single day.
- aleph_minus_one 3y ago
  More tracking will come as soon as the 49 euro ticket becomes more widely spread ... :-(
  - dathinab 3y ago
    no less, because there is now less profit to make from it because now most people have a ticket I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years.
    - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
      > I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years. My experience differs a lot: I go by train (in Germany) rather often and would say that it was more common to be checked than not (i.e. for me the probability of being checked was more than 1/2).
      - dathinab 3y ago
        like public "city" transportation or regional trains? in regional trains you get checked more often (longer distances, less passenger exchange and per-train personal have this as a side effect), but already it's somewhat tricky to have a regional train ticket which is not linked to your name in public "city" transportation it's semi-random but also there are times & stations where statistically it's most likely to find someone without an ticket and in turn this places/times get checked very frequent and if you are there every day at the specific time-frames you are unlucky and also get checked very frequent. But most times and place combinations do not have this issue and some are close to guaranteed that you don't get checked.
    - morelisp 3y ago
      Ticket control in Berlin seems to have gotten extremely centralized. 5y ago it was pretty random where they might walk a few people through scanning on the train, today it's almost always checks on the platform at major hubs / tourist centers. I don't know if this a real change of policy or a side result of the BVG changing their contractors.
      - dathinab 3y ago
        it's about money they check the place/time combo they are most likely to find a person without ticket most often
        morelisp 3y ago
        Even if this is true it's a change.
lispm 3y ago
> ticket is like a cookie which identifies you as a user and thus allows you to be tracked local trains, underground trains, busses and ferries here in Hamburg has no regular ticket checks whatsoever. No checks -> they can't track people via the ticket.
- dathinab 3y ago
  same for most of Germany
jonp888 3y ago
As far as I know no such tracking occurs and to do so would be illegal under German law. In London meanwhile, you can a weekly PDF statement showing exactly where you were and when! :)
kanbara 3y ago
this sort of tracking is illegal and not done. berlin had to cancel its rollout of smart cards and tapping some years ago due to leaking of personal information. you just wave the card when you get on the bus, or just not at all
_cenw 3y ago
The neoliberals insisted on that so that the very poor or those without a bank account would not be able to get it, not because of any kind of tracking. No system in Germany has gates and ticket checks are so rare, it's not really viable for tracking.

schroeding 3y ago

> and thus allows you to be tracked While true, something to note is that german train and metro stations, in general, have no ticket barriers. Tickets are only checked by staff on trains, on a (very) random basis for local / metro trains. I've had months in which my ticket wasn't checked at all while using it every single day.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago
More tracking will come as soon as the 49 euro ticket becomes more widely spread ... :-(
- dathinab 3y ago
  no less, because there is now less profit to make from it because now most people have a ticket I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years.
  - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
    > I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years. My experience differs a lot: I go by train (in Germany) rather often and would say that it was more common to be checked than not (i.e. for me the probability of being checked was more than 1/2).
    - dathinab 3y ago
      like public "city" transportation or regional trains? in regional trains you get checked more often (longer distances, less passenger exchange and per-train personal have this as a side effect), but already it's somewhat tricky to have a regional train ticket which is not linked to your name in public "city" transportation it's semi-random but also there are times & stations where statistically it's most likely to find someone without an ticket and in turn this places/times get checked very frequent and if you are there every day at the specific time-frames you are unlucky and also get checked very frequent. But most times and place combinations do not have this issue and some are close to guaranteed that you don't get checked.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    Ticket control in Berlin seems to have gotten extremely centralized. 5y ago it was pretty random where they might walk a few people through scanning on the train, today it's almost always checks on the platform at major hubs / tourist centers. I don't know if this a real change of policy or a side result of the BVG changing their contractors.
    - dathinab 3y ago
      it's about money they check the place/time combo they are most likely to find a person without ticket most often
      - morelisp 3y ago
        Even if this is true it's a change.

lispm 3y ago

> ticket is like a cookie which identifies you as a user and thus allows you to be tracked local trains, underground trains, busses and ferries here in Hamburg has no regular ticket checks whatsoever. No checks -> they can't track people via the ticket.

dathinab 3y ago
same for most of Germany

jonp888 3y ago

As far as I know no such tracking occurs and to do so would be illegal under German law. In London meanwhile, you can a weekly PDF statement showing exactly where you were and when! :)

kanbara 3y ago

this sort of tracking is illegal and not done. berlin had to cancel its rollout of smart cards and tapping some years ago due to leaking of personal information. you just wave the card when you get on the bus, or just not at all

_cenw 3y ago

The neoliberals insisted on that so that the very poor or those without a bank account would not be able to get it, not because of any kind of tracking. No system in Germany has gates and ticket checks are so rare, it's not really viable for tracking.