11 ms·

Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket

188 points by whinvik 3y ago

whinvik 3y ago
Blog here. https://vikramsg.github.io/blog_49travel/ https://vikramsg.github.io/blog_49travel/
- michaelmior 3y ago
  I think the blog post is probably a better link for the article than the app itself.
- detrites 3y ago
  This is a nice dev diary describing the various API's used and how the site was put together. Be great if it included more detail (ie, code!).
  - whinvik 3y ago
    All of the code is linked to on the website. This is the repo. https://github.com/vikramsg/49travel https://github.com/vikramsg/49travel Or did you mean that I should refer to the code while describing each step?
    - detrites 3y ago
      Yes, that's what I meant - but looking through it it's pretty straightforward, so maybe it's not totally necessary. Helpful for beginners though, and also faster for anyone to learn the parts of the codebase that are important to pay attention to. Maybe it's silly, but I guess, relevant - I also find it just exciting to read a post filled with syntax-coloured monospace boxes strewn through it. Maybe others feel the same? Possibly it's like the code equivalence to diagrams and illustrations.
      - whinvik 3y ago
        > but looking through it it's pretty straightforward, Yes, the code is pretty straightforward. It was mostly going down rabbit holes, or finding API's that was the hard part. > I also find it just exciting to read a post filled with syntax-coloured monospace boxes strewn through it. Haha, I like it too!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
vore 3y ago
It would be cool if the site could show all the places on a map! As someone who has only been to Germany a few times, I have no idea where most of these places are geographically :')
- whinvik 3y ago
  Yes, a number of people have asked for this. This is top of my list of things to do.
newprint 3y ago
[flagged]
- dzogchen 3y ago
  Bullshit. You can buy it via the Deutsche Bahn app without a German bank account. By the way, it is illegal to sell anything in Europe and discriminate on which EU country your bank account is from.
- _Microft 3y ago
  You only need a bank account with an IBAN number (and an address). There are transportation services that allow you to sign up, download the ticket, print the QR code and use just that, so you don’t even need to use some app for that. Make sure to cancel before the 10th of a month because it automatically extends for another month if you don‘t.
  - newprint 3y ago
    can you give me one of those transportation services, I would gladly proof myself wrong, because tickets are expensive.
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      Googling gave me this result: https://deutschlandticket.app/ https://deutschlandticket.app/ Wandering Germany has a few more suggestions: https://www.wanderingermany.com/step-by-step-how-to-buy-the-deutschland-ticket-with-a-credit-card-or-no-iban/ https://www.wanderingermany.com/step-by-step-how-to-buy-the-... But in exchange I’d really like to know what you did for DB to show you a 400 ticket, I don’t get such a result even going first class with the most flexible ticket available and only using ICE.
- Felk 3y ago
  Thankfully some service providers noticed the awful convenience and are trying to proliferate themselves by offering a better service. For example mop.la let's you buy the ticket via credit/debit card, gives you a digital ticket and let's you pause or cancel the ticket a day before the next month. (I'm not affiliated with them)
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 3y ago
The ticket is digital-only (smartphone or smartcard), there is no paper version, and it's coupled to your personal identity (name etc.). So some people have voiced concerns about that being used to profile the movement of Germany's citizens. IIRC the tracking is being justified by the government "to gather statistics so we can improve the service", or something like that. Disclaimer: I don't live there, I don't know the details.
- WFHRenaissance 3y ago
  At least they do it openly in Europe XD
  - dathinab 3y ago
    there is not relevant tracking there, there is no system of checking-in/out of a train you can always just board the train without anyone checking your ticket, you are _trusted_ to have a valid ticket then because people can not always be trusted from time to time some personal will check tickets for validity, potentially but in practice most people get checked like once a month or so at most, it's semi-random so some are probably unlucky Furthermore any statistic data collected from this checks is anonymized they don't remember that _you_ where checked there (if you ticked was valid). Additionally checking costs money (personal cost) so the less likely you are to find a trespasser the less checking is done, i.e. with the 49€ ticket probably less checking will be done long term. For longer reginal trips you are more like to be checked, but in practice this new tickets will give _less_ information to the DB and similar organziations. Because before for most regional ticket you brought either had already been explicit person bound or implicit throught he payment system with a specific start or end place listed on them. The ability to buy regional tickets with cash has been becoming increasingly more limited (e.g. because of nonsense like people trying to steal that cash by blowing up the ticket automata, creating a huge cost for a minimal profit).
    - WFHRenaissance 3y ago
      I was surprised how often my ticket was checked in Switzerland tbh
wunderland 3y ago
It is very encouraging to see Germany working on improvements to both their train service and also the UX of the Deutsche Bahn. Simplified fee structures like this will increase ridership.
- lm28469 3y ago
  It's not what you think it is.
- Simon_O_Rourke 3y ago
  Many many years ago, I worked on the code that ran the electronic signage for Deutsche Bahn's platforms and arrival/departure boards. I sure hope those poor UX software developers didn't have to face the same over-the-top bureacracy and change control committee nonsense we did.
ttymck 3y ago
One comment says "it's shipped to you", another says "it's digital only". This post doesn't seem to be an official press release, but this confusion seems notable.
- RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 3y ago
  "Digital-only" = By smartphone app OR by smartcard, i.e. a card like a credit card with a chip and your personal unique ID stored on that. In other words: You cannot get a plain old paper ticket without personal information, the ticket is like a cookie which identifies you as a user and thus allows you to be tracked. Disclaimer: Not a resident of Germany.
  - schroeding 3y ago
    > and thus allows you to be tracked While true, something to note is that german train and metro stations, in general, have no ticket barriers. Tickets are only checked by staff on trains, on a (very) random basis for local / metro trains. I've had months in which my ticket wasn't checked at all while using it every single day.
    - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
      More tracking will come as soon as the 49 euro ticket becomes more widely spread ... :-(
      - dathinab 3y ago
        no less, because there is now less profit to make from it because now most people have a ticket I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years.
        aleph_minus_one 3y ago
        > I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years. My experience differs a lot: I go by train (in Germany) rather often and would say that it was more common to be checked than not (i.e. for me the probability of being checked was more than 1/2).
swarnie 3y ago
What's stopping this being my 49 euro bnb?
- anamexis 3y ago
  Attempting to live on regional trains would be pretty unpleasant
- polycaster 3y ago
  Nothing, enjoy.
- estebank 3y ago
  The lack of a shower and having to carry all your luggage when you leave the train. I have in the past ridden overnight trains and slept in them, reducing the need for accommodation by one night. I think if you pack lightly, you can certainly do this alternating "traveling" and "staying" every couple of days for a while, but you will quickly cover a lot of ground that way. There will be times you want to hop on a shorter train for a couple of hours and no more, because a place you want to see is close-by.
- dathinab 3y ago
  Everything. Like e.g. TOS of public transportation providers only allowing usage for transit (and having some other restrictions). It's loud. It's bright. No showers. No easy way to store food clothes or similar. The risk of being stolen from. Generally there are most times better options even if you don't have much money. And I mean so what if some people try to use it like that it's in practice a combo of inconvenient enough and restricted enough to not be widely abused and in turn to not lead to much cost for the train provider or inconvenience for other passengers to matter much. (Assuming you mean something like looping round and round in some public transportation network.) Also if you mean you take a extra long one direction trip and sleep during that time then there isn't even abuse involved, you just basically used a regional train like a night train. Nothing bad. I mean why not.
- partiallypro 3y ago
  I took an overnight train from Munich to Essen (~8hrs), and it was not fun at all. No beds, full on bright lights, people are noisy, they constantly check your ticket after staff changes, and that was an ICE which is much nicer. With the 49 Euro, you're going to have to transfer more, so you have all that working against you. You would not get much sleep, even if it were legal to use it like a hotel. They were pretty good about kicking off shady people that were clearly high or something, had no ticket, and were using it as a shelter.
tuukkah 3y ago
If you want a visualisation of the travel times on a map instead, this service can show you the destinations if there's a direct connection on an eligible (local or regional) train, e.g. from Berlin: https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011160&local=true https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011160&local=true
- whinvik 3y ago
  That's pretty cool. Do you know if the code is available for this?
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Bottom right links to GitHub: https://github.com/juliuste/direkt.bahn.guru https://github.com/juliuste/direkt.bahn.guru
- netsharc 3y ago
  Man, I remember before the war, seeing a train in Berlin where the destination board was Moskau (Moscow in German). I imagined taking that train might evoke feelings of the cold war times. Sadly now there's a hot war. Or maybe it was the plague...
  - tuukkah 3y ago
    Now the farthest direct train from Berlin seems to go to Przemyśl in Poland by the Ukrainian border: https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011102 https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011102 To go to Russia, you needed special trains as they don't use European gauge, electricity or train control standards there. We have a few in Helsinki but now they would be useful only if donated to Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegro_(train) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegro_(train)
klotzambein 3y ago
Using the DB (Deutsche Bahn) App it is easy to plan a journey through Germany using the 49euro ticket. Just make sure to select regional transport only in the journey settings. The ticket is digital only and a german debit bank account is needed. (Source: traveling through Germany using the ticker right now).
beefman 3y ago
Hamburg to Tonning is 2 hours 15 min by train but only 1 hour 30 min by car. The car trip is 78 miles, which is about EUR $18 of gas at current German prices. So the train pass is worth it if you plan to take more than one such trip (round trip) before the end of the year. You'll spend 50% longer traveling, but you can read so that might even be a win. You have greater flexibility of destinations with a car, but also the obligation to park it.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  PaidChatCompanionOfMyLife, please summarise the article in one paragraph.
danwee 3y ago
For the ones who don't live in Germany: it's just for regional trains. So for instance if you would like to travel from Dusseldorf to Frankfurt (~200 km) people usually take ICE trains (direct, around 1h 45min. and 90 euros if you don't buy the ticket in advance). On the other hand, if you are planning to use the 49 euro ticket... well, you either can't make it for the time slot you want, or you'll spend 4h-5h (best case scenario) with multiple changes in between. Also, regional trains are not like the ones one see in the movies: they are usually crowded, noisy, not that clean, and they are not always on time... which is rather critical if you are changing trains many times (ICE trains are more like the ones you see in the movies).
- Sakos 3y ago
  None of this is true though? Regional trains are as clean as any other trains. ICE really aren't that nice (and I find it hard to accept the price difference on that basis - the only reason why I'd ever take ICE is because I don't feel like taking 5 hours to travel from Cologne to Berlin). They can be crowded around the times people are commuting, but otherwise they're not that crowded and it's easy to find a place to sit. If you're using the 49 Euro ticket to check out places nearby, there's no reason to believe you'll end up in a crowded train. Just make a tiny bit of effort not to take a train at peak times. They're only particularly noisy if, I don't know, there's a big game locally and people are drinking on the trains. Even in a full train when everybody's going to or coming from work, people are really fucking quiet. I'm not sure what your angle is, but I'm not sure why you're misrepresenting the state of German regional trains.
  - danwee 3y ago
    > Regional trains are as clean as any other trains. ICE really aren't that nice (and I find it hard to accept the price difference on that basis - the only reason why I'd ever take ICE is because I don't feel like taking 5 hours to travel from Cologne to Berlin). I'm not saying regional ones are crap, just that in my experience ICE trains have been always cleaner than regional ones. > They can be crowded around the times people are commuting, but otherwise they're not that crowded and it's easy to find a place to sit. If you're using the 49 Euro ticket to check out places nearby, there's no reason to believe you'll end up in a crowded train. Just make a tiny bit of effort not to take a train at peak times. That's what I wanted to say. But again, compared to ICE, regional trains are "more" crowded (e.g., in peak times you see people standing and you can't barely move. I hardly see that on ICE) > They're only particularly noisy if, I don't know, there's a big game locally and people are drinking on the trains. Even in a full train when everybody's going to or coming from work, people are really fucking quiet. The more people, the more noise. Nothing particular about Germans/Germany. This is a human thing. So, taking into account the peak times, I think this is just pure common sense. > I'm not sure what your angle is, but I'm not sure why you're misrepresenting the state of German regional trains. My main point was that with the 49 euro ticket, one cannot travel as comfortably as one may think across Germany: mainly in terms of time.
MilaM 3y ago
To find train connections, I recommend the Bahn-App by Hellany [1]. With it, you can search specifically for trains for which the Deutschland-Ticket is valid. Notice the toggle in the last line of the search form. [1] https://bahnapp.online/route https://bahnapp.online/route
- shinryuu 3y ago
  You can do that with the official deutsche bahn app as well.
- NeoTar 3y ago
  I believe you can also do that on the Bahn.de website by choosing "Nur Nahverkehr" (in English "Local transport only")
hansoolo 3y ago
>Leipzig is generally safe, but visitors should be aware of far-right extremists in the area. What the...?
- whinvik 3y ago
  I had to do a double take. But it is on the WikiVoyage page which gpt decided was worth including in the summary. I will remove it. https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Leipzig https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Leipzig
  - M3L0NM4N 3y ago
    > But unlike in rural Saxony, they are countered by a strong, active Antifa community, which seldom hesitates using violence to stop far-right activities.
  - hansoolo 3y ago
    Thank you! It's a beautiful city and in contrast to that text, it is rather open minded city in contrast to other cities in Saxony, I suppose.
  - hansoolo 3y ago
    I normally don't do that, but I felt the urge to remove that paragraph all together. It is not helpful in any way when visiting the city. And normally nobody cares about political tensions in city.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Far-right extremists are never very far away! Be scared!
- lnsru 3y ago
  Sad reality. Unless you’re white and looking like a German, don’t feel too relaxed in former Eastern Germany.
  - hansoolo 3y ago
e4e5 3y ago
Very cool tool, would love to see what kind the destinations are without reading. Like what is a lake or what is a big city. Aber dennoch, sehr cool :)
- whinvik 3y ago
  Can you expand a bit. What do you mean by "what is a lake or what is a big city"? Thanks for the comment.
  - schroeding 3y ago
    Not GP, but you have e.g. Brocken and Cologne as targets, but the former is (the summit of) a mountain, the latter a city. A categorization of the destinations (maybe based on wiki voyage metadata?) may be a good addition for your very nice web app. BTW: You have Heligoland[1] as a reachable destination. I don't think that's actually true, those are real high sea ferries for which, AFAIK, the 49 Euro ticket is not valid. :) [1] https://en.wikivoyage.org/?curid=14437 https://en.wikivoyage.org/?curid=14437
    - whinvik 3y ago
      Yeah, that would be a cool idea. Will put it on my ToDo list. Nice catch on Heligoland. Thanks. The final journey is via Schiff and I had not filtered that out. However, I don't know if DB categorizes Schiff that are included or excluded from the 49 Euro ticket.
  - detrites 3y ago
    I'm guessing they mean something like icons, or colour-coded tiny-font words with borders "lake", "city", "village" etc, on each title, to be able to tell at a glance what the different places are without having to expand them.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mo_42 3y ago
This is really interesting. It might draw a lot of tourism because it’s so easy to get around. It’s not even about the money. It’s about the stress-free way of traveling.
- matricaria 3y ago
  Nothing about traveling with D-Ticket is stress free. Public transportation in Germany is not as good as some might believe. Last week I was on vacation. We missed a train because the previous was delayed. We then had to take a taxi because the last bus departed at 17:00 (sic) and we arrived at 17:30. I rural Germany, you need a car to get anywhere. Especially at night (aka after 17:00).
  - wolfi1 3y ago
    most lines in Germany and other European countries are intended for commuters, not for the casual tourist, which is a pity, as only public transport is the solution to the traffic problems
    - okr 3y ago
      Which traffic problems? People get around. It is a bit sad though, that people have to subsidize the luxury 49,- ticket for the special people in cities, while they themselves would not use it, but hey, getting free stuff on the back of others is always great. Love it!
- vander_elst 3y ago
  It's actually not that easy to get the ticket. The ticket is not just a ticket that you can but at a machine whenever you want, it's actually a subscription that at the moment can only be started at the beginning of the month and the request must be received something like 4 days before the end of the month, otherwise you slip to the next month. I'm not sure if there are additional conditions not covered here but I can imagine there are are lots of other quirks.
  - 3y ago
pete762 3y ago
Just make it mandatory (basically tax) and remove all those garbage ticket systems, people checking the tickets etc... Getting rid of so much overhead
- roboben 3y ago
  Sadly it is illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing. So that’s that. But then there is GEZ which is basically the same thing just for TV :shrug:
  - wolfi1 3y ago
    GEZ? Germany doesn't have the GEZ anymore. and why is it illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing? they still have the "Soli"
    - taejo 3y ago
      But the fee that the GEZ used to collect (the Rundfunkbeitrag) does still exist and that's what a lot of people call it even the entity that collects it has a different name now, which doesn't make a difference to its effect. I believe there are taxes in Germany that are zweckgebunden (legally bound to be used for a particular purpose), but the Soli isn't one: there were political justifications for its introduction, but it goes into the general fund and the government doesn't have to use it for those purposes.
  - ulfw 3y ago
    Bullshit. They tax anything and everything in Germany. There's taxes on insurance, taxes on tobacco, taxes on fuel... As a random example here is a tax for sparkling wines. No, not import custom fees. A tax. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer
    - Mesopropithecus 3y ago
      I assume the previous poster meant that you can't tie specific taxes to specific spending buckets in Germany.
autokad 3y ago
[flagged]
TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago
[flagged]
- Tade0 3y ago
  I feel tempted to use sarcasm here. Train tickets are often tied to a name - especially when you have a reserved seat. So are bus/train cards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything new here. Meanwhile cars have a lot more and a lot older surveillance infrastructure behind them with mandatory license plates, driving licenses, insurance and whatnot. The highest anonymity is achieved through cycling and/or walking.
TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago
Why can't I comment on this, my comments get flagged within seconds? Who is doing this? Can you explain why instead of just making my comments invisible? I'd like to learn.
- detrites 3y ago
  We'e seeing this one, but it contains no relevant content, so wouldn't be surprising if it was soon flagged. EDIT: here's what appears to be the intended comment, it's about surveillance and is interesting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36245520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36245520
  - TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago
    Thanks :)
- foxtacles 3y ago
  Most likely since you are using a newly created account, and an automated system does this. Happened to me as well and kept happening even after months. Was fixed swiftly after I contacted the site admin about it :) I believe when people 'vouch' for your dead comments, the issue will go away eventually.
  - TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago
    Thanks for the info! Strange that this one didn't get flagged.
throwaway85858 3y ago
Some people are being a bit negative here, but the 49 euro ticket has been a game changer in terms of how I think about public transport. I can choose to be totally spontaneous like take the metro, then local light rail to then take a train to another city and take the metro there then hop on another train to another city, hop off visit a beer garden, hop back on going this time somewhere completely random... any or even every day of the month and all for 49 euros! It's insane.
- whinvik 3y ago
  > I can choose to be totally spontaneous like take the metro, then local light rail to then take a train to another city and take the metro there then hop on another train to another city, hop off visit a beer garden, hop back on going this time somewhere completely random This is exactly the kind of thing that made me want to build this.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  I think a valid criticism is that it would still be good value at, say, 99 euros, or whatever. At some point it is a case of windfall effect: Of course people prefer cheaper and even better, free, but everything does have a cost that will be paid one way or another. I think that your example is a good one for this: It is taking advantage of subsidies for 'luxury' by someone who can obviously afford to pay for his leisure activities. And that's fine as long as there is nothing else left to spend public money on.
  - slow_typist 3y ago
    It is fine as long as you have or can make enough trains, busses and people who staff them. Those are finite resources. Since the external costs of car traffic are so high, even free public transport would probably make sense from the societal perspective.
    - Gravityloss 3y ago
      This particular country is probably way oversufficient in all these. Oil they need to import.
partiallypro 3y ago
I'm spending 2 months in Germany later this summer, definitely bookmarking this. I will still probably end up taking the ICE a lot though, it's just faster and has less transfers.
- BenFeldman1930 3y ago
  > it's just faster and has less transfers. Rest asured, that won't happen.
  - partiallypro 3y ago
    I've been to Germany many times; ICE is always faster than a regional train with tons of transfers. I know Germans complain about it all the time, but it's usually very good. I've only had 1 major delay. I've had more S-Bahn delays than ICE.
poulsbohemian 3y ago
If I were a 20-something all over again and taking weekend trips all over Germany and where money was more important than time, I would be all over this. Taking the train is an adventure in its own right, so it's ok if it takes a little longer to get there. That said, we are hoping to take a 10 day trip to Germany in November. For a short tourist hop, it probably doesn't make sense for us to use this ticket given that time is of the essence (IE: take the ICE). We might buy the Bahn card though to lock in some discounts.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  Definitely take advantage of the Banh Card and do the math. On my visits I usually only take 2-3 train rides on the ICE, but it pays off very quickly. Cancelling is a PITA though.
  - poulsbohemian 3y ago
    That was my thinking as well, especially with a family of four and intending to make a loop of the country by train. I understand a lot of the criticism of the transit system in this thread, but when I compare the options and flexibility there compared to Washington / Oregon (where I live, and comparable in geographic size to Germany) it becomes readily apparent how superior any European nation's transit options are to our own.
    - ajmurmann 3y ago
      Living in Oregon, I've taken the train to Seattle a few times. It's nice, but of course could be better. As much public transit-envy I have for Europe or Japan and China, I just am increasingly coming to be convinced that inter-city transit at the west coast just isn't suited for public transit. The density just isn't there. When I take an ICE from Bonn to Hamburg I pass by so many major cities all of which are served by the ICE. There isn't much to speak of between Portland and Seattle and even less if I wanted to take a train to SF. The math just doesn't work as well.
      - 3y ago
m00dy 3y ago
looks like a great tactic to evade the upcoming recession :)
asnyder 3y ago
Personally, it's been a game changer for me. Been in Munich the last couple of months and previously it was over $30 a week to use just the Subway/Bus/Trams. At ~$53 a month I can now take the Subway/Bus/Tram, suburban trains, to/from airport, as well as inter-regional trains which make certain trips and activities make significantly more sense. Was a bit weird at first with the local Munich provider time restricting it to before the month, vs DB which allowed for the current month, but whose system was overwhelmed. This actually forced me to get an unnecessary local week pass until DB sorted out their issues and allowed for purchase. Seems as the local Munich provider MVGO also corrected their system and allow for the current month as well with no waiting period. Honestly wish every state would implement something like this, would encourage more travel, adventures, and quality of life improvement overall.
kwo 3y ago
Calling these trips “journeys” raises the question if the traveller is taking on more than he bargained for.
iddan 3y ago
Is there a similar concept for France?
JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
Deutsche Bahn has some of the worse graphics for a consumer facing website I have ever seen
kangalioo 3y ago
Is the purpose of this site to list which places you can reach at all with the 49€-Ticket? If so, that seems a bit useless: you can travel from anywhere to anywhere in Germany with local trains - it just takes long. In practice, you just enter start and destination into DB Navigator app, select regional-only, and choose your pick.
thesaintlives 3y ago
German trains are pretty much excellent. Prices go from reasonable to good. Bahn card is super. The only problem is delays which can happen regularly for many different reasons, some outside the control of DB (suicides for example). Compare this to UK trains - holy moly....
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rubyed 3y ago
Hi! I am new here. I will be visiting Germany as a tourist towards the end of June. Can I buy the 49€ ticket from my credit card on hvv switch app before 20th June, 2023? What is the deadline to purchase this ticket? 10th of the previous month or 20th of the previous month? Should the credit card be strictly in my name or can I have a family member pay for it? Please if anyone could answer since I couldn't find relevant answers on the internet.

188 points by whinvik 3y ago

whinvik 3y ago

Blog here. https://vikramsg.github.io/blog_49travel/ https://vikramsg.github.io/blog_49travel/

michaelmior 3y ago
I think the blog post is probably a better link for the article than the app itself.
detrites 3y ago
This is a nice dev diary describing the various API's used and how the site was put together. Be great if it included more detail (ie, code!).
- whinvik 3y ago
  All of the code is linked to on the website. This is the repo. https://github.com/vikramsg/49travel https://github.com/vikramsg/49travel Or did you mean that I should refer to the code while describing each step?
  - detrites 3y ago
    Yes, that's what I meant - but looking through it it's pretty straightforward, so maybe it's not totally necessary. Helpful for beginners though, and also faster for anyone to learn the parts of the codebase that are important to pay attention to. Maybe it's silly, but I guess, relevant - I also find it just exciting to read a post filled with syntax-coloured monospace boxes strewn through it. Maybe others feel the same? Possibly it's like the code equivalence to diagrams and illustrations.
    - whinvik 3y ago
      > but looking through it it's pretty straightforward, Yes, the code is pretty straightforward. It was mostly going down rabbit holes, or finding API's that was the hard part. > I also find it just exciting to read a post filled with syntax-coloured monospace boxes strewn through it. Haha, I like it too!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

vore 3y ago

It would be cool if the site could show all the places on a map! As someone who has only been to Germany a few times, I have no idea where most of these places are geographically :')

whinvik 3y ago
Yes, a number of people have asked for this. This is top of my list of things to do.

newprint 3y ago

[flagged]

dzogchen 3y ago
Bullshit. You can buy it via the Deutsche Bahn app without a German bank account. By the way, it is illegal to sell anything in Europe and discriminate on which EU country your bank account is from.
_Microft 3y ago
You only need a bank account with an IBAN number (and an address). There are transportation services that allow you to sign up, download the ticket, print the QR code and use just that, so you don’t even need to use some app for that. Make sure to cancel before the 10th of a month because it automatically extends for another month if you don‘t.
- newprint 3y ago
  can you give me one of those transportation services, I would gladly proof myself wrong, because tickets are expensive.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Googling gave me this result: https://deutschlandticket.app/ https://deutschlandticket.app/ Wandering Germany has a few more suggestions: https://www.wanderingermany.com/step-by-step-how-to-buy-the-deutschland-ticket-with-a-credit-card-or-no-iban/ https://www.wanderingermany.com/step-by-step-how-to-buy-the-... But in exchange I’d really like to know what you did for DB to show you a 400 ticket, I don’t get such a result even going first class with the most flexible ticket available and only using ICE.
Felk 3y ago
Thankfully some service providers noticed the awful convenience and are trying to proliferate themselves by offering a better service. For example mop.la let's you buy the ticket via credit/debit card, gives you a digital ticket and let's you pause or cancel the ticket a day before the next month. (I'm not affiliated with them)

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 3y ago

The ticket is digital-only (smartphone or smartcard), there is no paper version, and it's coupled to your personal identity (name etc.). So some people have voiced concerns about that being used to profile the movement of Germany's citizens. IIRC the tracking is being justified by the government "to gather statistics so we can improve the service", or something like that. Disclaimer: I don't live there, I don't know the details.

WFHRenaissance 3y ago
At least they do it openly in Europe XD
- dathinab 3y ago
  there is not relevant tracking there, there is no system of checking-in/out of a train you can always just board the train without anyone checking your ticket, you are _trusted_ to have a valid ticket then because people can not always be trusted from time to time some personal will check tickets for validity, potentially but in practice most people get checked like once a month or so at most, it's semi-random so some are probably unlucky Furthermore any statistic data collected from this checks is anonymized they don't remember that _you_ where checked there (if you ticked was valid). Additionally checking costs money (personal cost) so the less likely you are to find a trespasser the less checking is done, i.e. with the 49€ ticket probably less checking will be done long term. For longer reginal trips you are more like to be checked, but in practice this new tickets will give _less_ information to the DB and similar organziations. Because before for most regional ticket you brought either had already been explicit person bound or implicit throught he payment system with a specific start or end place listed on them. The ability to buy regional tickets with cash has been becoming increasingly more limited (e.g. because of nonsense like people trying to steal that cash by blowing up the ticket automata, creating a huge cost for a minimal profit).
  - WFHRenaissance 3y ago
    I was surprised how often my ticket was checked in Switzerland tbh

wunderland 3y ago

It is very encouraging to see Germany working on improvements to both their train service and also the UX of the Deutsche Bahn. Simplified fee structures like this will increase ridership.

lm28469 3y ago
It's not what you think it is.
Simon_O_Rourke 3y ago
Many many years ago, I worked on the code that ran the electronic signage for Deutsche Bahn's platforms and arrival/departure boards. I sure hope those poor UX software developers didn't have to face the same over-the-top bureacracy and change control committee nonsense we did.

ttymck 3y ago

One comment says "it's shipped to you", another says "it's digital only". This post doesn't seem to be an official press release, but this confusion seems notable.

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 3y ago
"Digital-only" = By smartphone app OR by smartcard, i.e. a card like a credit card with a chip and your personal unique ID stored on that. In other words: You cannot get a plain old paper ticket without personal information, the ticket is like a cookie which identifies you as a user and thus allows you to be tracked. Disclaimer: Not a resident of Germany.
- schroeding 3y ago
  > and thus allows you to be tracked While true, something to note is that german train and metro stations, in general, have no ticket barriers. Tickets are only checked by staff on trains, on a (very) random basis for local / metro trains. I've had months in which my ticket wasn't checked at all while using it every single day.
  - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
    More tracking will come as soon as the 49 euro ticket becomes more widely spread ... :-(
    - dathinab 3y ago
      no less, because there is now less profit to make from it because now most people have a ticket I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years.
      - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
        > I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years. My experience differs a lot: I go by train (in Germany) rather often and would say that it was more common to be checked than not (i.e. for me the probability of being checked was more than 1/2).

swarnie 3y ago

What's stopping this being my 49 euro bnb?

anamexis 3y ago
Attempting to live on regional trains would be pretty unpleasant
polycaster 3y ago
Nothing, enjoy.
estebank 3y ago
The lack of a shower and having to carry all your luggage when you leave the train. I have in the past ridden overnight trains and slept in them, reducing the need for accommodation by one night. I think if you pack lightly, you can certainly do this alternating "traveling" and "staying" every couple of days for a while, but you will quickly cover a lot of ground that way. There will be times you want to hop on a shorter train for a couple of hours and no more, because a place you want to see is close-by.
dathinab 3y ago
Everything. Like e.g. TOS of public transportation providers only allowing usage for transit (and having some other restrictions). It's loud. It's bright. No showers. No easy way to store food clothes or similar. The risk of being stolen from. Generally there are most times better options even if you don't have much money. And I mean so what if some people try to use it like that it's in practice a combo of inconvenient enough and restricted enough to not be widely abused and in turn to not lead to much cost for the train provider or inconvenience for other passengers to matter much. (Assuming you mean something like looping round and round in some public transportation network.) Also if you mean you take a extra long one direction trip and sleep during that time then there isn't even abuse involved, you just basically used a regional train like a night train. Nothing bad. I mean why not.
partiallypro 3y ago
I took an overnight train from Munich to Essen (~8hrs), and it was not fun at all. No beds, full on bright lights, people are noisy, they constantly check your ticket after staff changes, and that was an ICE which is much nicer. With the 49 Euro, you're going to have to transfer more, so you have all that working against you. You would not get much sleep, even if it were legal to use it like a hotel. They were pretty good about kicking off shady people that were clearly high or something, had no ticket, and were using it as a shelter.

tuukkah 3y ago

If you want a visualisation of the travel times on a map instead, this service can show you the destinations if there's a direct connection on an eligible (local or regional) train, e.g. from Berlin: https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011160&local=true https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011160&local=true

whinvik 3y ago
That's pretty cool. Do you know if the code is available for this?
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Bottom right links to GitHub: https://github.com/juliuste/direkt.bahn.guru https://github.com/juliuste/direkt.bahn.guru
netsharc 3y ago
Man, I remember before the war, seeing a train in Berlin where the destination board was Moskau (Moscow in German). I imagined taking that train might evoke feelings of the cold war times. Sadly now there's a hot war. Or maybe it was the plague...
- tuukkah 3y ago
  Now the farthest direct train from Berlin seems to go to Przemyśl in Poland by the Ukrainian border: https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011102 https://direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8011102 To go to Russia, you needed special trains as they don't use European gauge, electricity or train control standards there. We have a few in Helsinki but now they would be useful only if donated to Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegro_(train) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegro_(train)

klotzambein 3y ago

Using the DB (Deutsche Bahn) App it is easy to plan a journey through Germany using the 49euro ticket. Just make sure to select regional transport only in the journey settings. The ticket is digital only and a german debit bank account is needed. (Source: traveling through Germany using the ticker right now).

beefman 3y ago

Hamburg to Tonning is 2 hours 15 min by train but only 1 hour 30 min by car. The car trip is 78 miles, which is about EUR $18 of gas at current German prices. So the train pass is worth it if you plan to take more than one such trip (round trip) before the end of the year. You'll spend 50% longer traveling, but you can read so that might even be a win. You have greater flexibility of destinations with a car, but also the obligation to park it.

actionfromafar 3y ago
PaidChatCompanionOfMyLife, please summarise the article in one paragraph.

danwee 3y ago

For the ones who don't live in Germany: it's just for regional trains. So for instance if you would like to travel from Dusseldorf to Frankfurt (~200 km) people usually take ICE trains (direct, around 1h 45min. and 90 euros if you don't buy the ticket in advance). On the other hand, if you are planning to use the 49 euro ticket... well, you either can't make it for the time slot you want, or you'll spend 4h-5h (best case scenario) with multiple changes in between. Also, regional trains are not like the ones one see in the movies: they are usually crowded, noisy, not that clean, and they are not always on time... which is rather critical if you are changing trains many times (ICE trains are more like the ones you see in the movies).

Sakos 3y ago
None of this is true though? Regional trains are as clean as any other trains. ICE really aren't that nice (and I find it hard to accept the price difference on that basis - the only reason why I'd ever take ICE is because I don't feel like taking 5 hours to travel from Cologne to Berlin). They can be crowded around the times people are commuting, but otherwise they're not that crowded and it's easy to find a place to sit. If you're using the 49 Euro ticket to check out places nearby, there's no reason to believe you'll end up in a crowded train. Just make a tiny bit of effort not to take a train at peak times. They're only particularly noisy if, I don't know, there's a big game locally and people are drinking on the trains. Even in a full train when everybody's going to or coming from work, people are really fucking quiet. I'm not sure what your angle is, but I'm not sure why you're misrepresenting the state of German regional trains.
- danwee 3y ago
  > Regional trains are as clean as any other trains. ICE really aren't that nice (and I find it hard to accept the price difference on that basis - the only reason why I'd ever take ICE is because I don't feel like taking 5 hours to travel from Cologne to Berlin). I'm not saying regional ones are crap, just that in my experience ICE trains have been always cleaner than regional ones. > They can be crowded around the times people are commuting, but otherwise they're not that crowded and it's easy to find a place to sit. If you're using the 49 Euro ticket to check out places nearby, there's no reason to believe you'll end up in a crowded train. Just make a tiny bit of effort not to take a train at peak times. That's what I wanted to say. But again, compared to ICE, regional trains are "more" crowded (e.g., in peak times you see people standing and you can't barely move. I hardly see that on ICE) > They're only particularly noisy if, I don't know, there's a big game locally and people are drinking on the trains. Even in a full train when everybody's going to or coming from work, people are really fucking quiet. The more people, the more noise. Nothing particular about Germans/Germany. This is a human thing. So, taking into account the peak times, I think this is just pure common sense. > I'm not sure what your angle is, but I'm not sure why you're misrepresenting the state of German regional trains. My main point was that with the 49 euro ticket, one cannot travel as comfortably as one may think across Germany: mainly in terms of time.

MilaM 3y ago

To find train connections, I recommend the Bahn-App by Hellany [1]. With it, you can search specifically for trains for which the Deutschland-Ticket is valid. Notice the toggle in the last line of the search form. [1] https://bahnapp.online/route https://bahnapp.online/route

shinryuu 3y ago
You can do that with the official deutsche bahn app as well.
NeoTar 3y ago
I believe you can also do that on the Bahn.de website by choosing "Nur Nahverkehr" (in English "Local transport only")

hansoolo 3y ago

>Leipzig is generally safe, but visitors should be aware of far-right extremists in the area. What the...?

whinvik 3y ago
I had to do a double take. But it is on the WikiVoyage page which gpt decided was worth including in the summary. I will remove it. https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Leipzig https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Leipzig
- M3L0NM4N 3y ago
  > But unlike in rural Saxony, they are countered by a strong, active Antifa community, which seldom hesitates using violence to stop far-right activities.
- hansoolo 3y ago
  Thank you! It's a beautiful city and in contrast to that text, it is rather open minded city in contrast to other cities in Saxony, I suppose.
- hansoolo 3y ago
  I normally don't do that, but I felt the urge to remove that paragraph all together. It is not helpful in any way when visiting the city. And normally nobody cares about political tensions in city.
bombcar 3y ago
Far-right extremists are never very far away! Be scared!
lnsru 3y ago
Sad reality. Unless you’re white and looking like a German, don’t feel too relaxed in former Eastern Germany.
- hansoolo 3y ago

e4e5 3y ago

Very cool tool, would love to see what kind the destinations are without reading. Like what is a lake or what is a big city. Aber dennoch, sehr cool :)

whinvik 3y ago
Can you expand a bit. What do you mean by "what is a lake or what is a big city"? Thanks for the comment.
- schroeding 3y ago
  Not GP, but you have e.g. Brocken and Cologne as targets, but the former is (the summit of) a mountain, the latter a city. A categorization of the destinations (maybe based on wiki voyage metadata?) may be a good addition for your very nice web app. BTW: You have Heligoland[1] as a reachable destination. I don't think that's actually true, those are real high sea ferries for which, AFAIK, the 49 Euro ticket is not valid. :) [1] https://en.wikivoyage.org/?curid=14437 https://en.wikivoyage.org/?curid=14437
  - whinvik 3y ago
    Yeah, that would be a cool idea. Will put it on my ToDo list. Nice catch on Heligoland. Thanks. The final journey is via Schiff and I had not filtered that out. However, I don't know if DB categorizes Schiff that are included or excluded from the 49 Euro ticket.
- detrites 3y ago
  I'm guessing they mean something like icons, or colour-coded tiny-font words with borders "lake", "city", "village" etc, on each title, to be able to tell at a glance what the different places are without having to expand them.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mo_42 3y ago

This is really interesting. It might draw a lot of tourism because it’s so easy to get around. It’s not even about the money. It’s about the stress-free way of traveling.

matricaria 3y ago
Nothing about traveling with D-Ticket is stress free. Public transportation in Germany is not as good as some might believe. Last week I was on vacation. We missed a train because the previous was delayed. We then had to take a taxi because the last bus departed at 17:00 (sic) and we arrived at 17:30. I rural Germany, you need a car to get anywhere. Especially at night (aka after 17:00).
- wolfi1 3y ago
  most lines in Germany and other European countries are intended for commuters, not for the casual tourist, which is a pity, as only public transport is the solution to the traffic problems
  - okr 3y ago
    Which traffic problems? People get around. It is a bit sad though, that people have to subsidize the luxury 49,- ticket for the special people in cities, while they themselves would not use it, but hey, getting free stuff on the back of others is always great. Love it!
vander_elst 3y ago
It's actually not that easy to get the ticket. The ticket is not just a ticket that you can but at a machine whenever you want, it's actually a subscription that at the moment can only be started at the beginning of the month and the request must be received something like 4 days before the end of the month, otherwise you slip to the next month. I'm not sure if there are additional conditions not covered here but I can imagine there are are lots of other quirks.
- 3y ago

pete762 3y ago

Just make it mandatory (basically tax) and remove all those garbage ticket systems, people checking the tickets etc... Getting rid of so much overhead

roboben 3y ago
Sadly it is illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing. So that’s that. But then there is GEZ which is basically the same thing just for TV :shrug:
- wolfi1 3y ago
  GEZ? Germany doesn't have the GEZ anymore. and why is it illegal in Germany to have a tax for a specific thing? they still have the "Soli"
  - taejo 3y ago
    But the fee that the GEZ used to collect (the Rundfunkbeitrag) does still exist and that's what a lot of people call it even the entity that collects it has a different name now, which doesn't make a difference to its effect. I believe there are taxes in Germany that are zweckgebunden (legally bound to be used for a particular purpose), but the Soli isn't one: there were political justifications for its introduction, but it goes into the general fund and the government doesn't have to use it for those purposes.
- ulfw 3y ago
  Bullshit. They tax anything and everything in Germany. There's taxes on insurance, taxes on tobacco, taxes on fuel... As a random example here is a tax for sparkling wines. No, not import custom fees. A tax. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumweinsteuer
  - Mesopropithecus 3y ago
    I assume the previous poster meant that you can't tie specific taxes to specific spending buckets in Germany.

autokad 3y ago

[flagged]

TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago

[flagged]

Tade0 3y ago
I feel tempted to use sarcasm here. Train tickets are often tied to a name - especially when you have a reserved seat. So are bus/train cards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything new here. Meanwhile cars have a lot more and a lot older surveillance infrastructure behind them with mandatory license plates, driving licenses, insurance and whatnot. The highest anonymity is achieved through cycling and/or walking.

TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago

Why can't I comment on this, my comments get flagged within seconds? Who is doing this? Can you explain why instead of just making my comments invisible? I'd like to learn.

detrites 3y ago
We'e seeing this one, but it contains no relevant content, so wouldn't be surprising if it was soon flagged. EDIT: here's what appears to be the intended comment, it's about surveillance and is interesting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36245520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36245520
- TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago
  Thanks :)
foxtacles 3y ago
Most likely since you are using a newly created account, and an automated system does this. Happened to me as well and kept happening even after months. Was fixed swiftly after I contacted the site admin about it :) I believe when people 'vouch' for your dead comments, the issue will go away eventually.
- TKEeDp3i44dtFt 3y ago
  Thanks for the info! Strange that this one didn't get flagged.

throwaway85858 3y ago

Some people are being a bit negative here, but the 49 euro ticket has been a game changer in terms of how I think about public transport. I can choose to be totally spontaneous like take the metro, then local light rail to then take a train to another city and take the metro there then hop on another train to another city, hop off visit a beer garden, hop back on going this time somewhere completely random... any or even every day of the month and all for 49 euros! It's insane.

whinvik 3y ago
> I can choose to be totally spontaneous like take the metro, then local light rail to then take a train to another city and take the metro there then hop on another train to another city, hop off visit a beer garden, hop back on going this time somewhere completely random This is exactly the kind of thing that made me want to build this.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
I think a valid criticism is that it would still be good value at, say, 99 euros, or whatever. At some point it is a case of windfall effect: Of course people prefer cheaper and even better, free, but everything does have a cost that will be paid one way or another. I think that your example is a good one for this: It is taking advantage of subsidies for 'luxury' by someone who can obviously afford to pay for his leisure activities. And that's fine as long as there is nothing else left to spend public money on.
- slow_typist 3y ago
  It is fine as long as you have or can make enough trains, busses and people who staff them. Those are finite resources. Since the external costs of car traffic are so high, even free public transport would probably make sense from the societal perspective.
  - Gravityloss 3y ago
    This particular country is probably way oversufficient in all these. Oil they need to import.

partiallypro 3y ago

I'm spending 2 months in Germany later this summer, definitely bookmarking this. I will still probably end up taking the ICE a lot though, it's just faster and has less transfers.

BenFeldman1930 3y ago
> it's just faster and has less transfers. Rest asured, that won't happen.
- partiallypro 3y ago
  I've been to Germany many times; ICE is always faster than a regional train with tons of transfers. I know Germans complain about it all the time, but it's usually very good. I've only had 1 major delay. I've had more S-Bahn delays than ICE.

poulsbohemian 3y ago

If I were a 20-something all over again and taking weekend trips all over Germany and where money was more important than time, I would be all over this. Taking the train is an adventure in its own right, so it's ok if it takes a little longer to get there. That said, we are hoping to take a 10 day trip to Germany in November. For a short tourist hop, it probably doesn't make sense for us to use this ticket given that time is of the essence (IE: take the ICE). We might buy the Bahn card though to lock in some discounts.

ajmurmann 3y ago
Definitely take advantage of the Banh Card and do the math. On my visits I usually only take 2-3 train rides on the ICE, but it pays off very quickly. Cancelling is a PITA though.
- poulsbohemian 3y ago
  That was my thinking as well, especially with a family of four and intending to make a loop of the country by train. I understand a lot of the criticism of the transit system in this thread, but when I compare the options and flexibility there compared to Washington / Oregon (where I live, and comparable in geographic size to Germany) it becomes readily apparent how superior any European nation's transit options are to our own.
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    Living in Oregon, I've taken the train to Seattle a few times. It's nice, but of course could be better. As much public transit-envy I have for Europe or Japan and China, I just am increasingly coming to be convinced that inter-city transit at the west coast just isn't suited for public transit. The density just isn't there. When I take an ICE from Bonn to Hamburg I pass by so many major cities all of which are served by the ICE. There isn't much to speak of between Portland and Seattle and even less if I wanted to take a train to SF. The math just doesn't work as well.
    - 3y ago

m00dy 3y ago

looks like a great tactic to evade the upcoming recession :)

asnyder 3y ago

Personally, it's been a game changer for me. Been in Munich the last couple of months and previously it was over $30 a week to use just the Subway/Bus/Trams. At ~$53 a month I can now take the Subway/Bus/Tram, suburban trains, to/from airport, as well as inter-regional trains which make certain trips and activities make significantly more sense. Was a bit weird at first with the local Munich provider time restricting it to before the month, vs DB which allowed for the current month, but whose system was overwhelmed. This actually forced me to get an unnecessary local week pass until DB sorted out their issues and allowed for purchase. Seems as the local Munich provider MVGO also corrected their system and allow for the current month as well with no waiting period. Honestly wish every state would implement something like this, would encourage more travel, adventures, and quality of life improvement overall.

kwo 3y ago

Calling these trips “journeys” raises the question if the traveller is taking on more than he bargained for.

iddan 3y ago

Is there a similar concept for France?

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago

Deutsche Bahn has some of the worse graphics for a consumer facing website I have ever seen

kangalioo 3y ago

Is the purpose of this site to list which places you can reach at all with the 49€-Ticket? If so, that seems a bit useless: you can travel from anywhere to anywhere in Germany with local trains - it just takes long. In practice, you just enter start and destination into DB Navigator app, select regional-only, and choose your pick.

thesaintlives 3y ago

German trains are pretty much excellent. Prices go from reasonable to good. Bahn card is super. The only problem is delays which can happen regularly for many different reasons, some outside the control of DB (suicides for example). Compare this to UK trains - holy moly....

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

rubyed 3y ago

Hi! I am new here. I will be visiting Germany as a tourist towards the end of June. Can I buy the 49€ ticket from my credit card on hvv switch app before 20th June, 2023? What is the deadline to purchase this ticket? 10th of the previous month or 20th of the previous month? Should the credit card be strictly in my name or can I have a family member pay for it? Please if anyone could answer since I couldn't find relevant answers on the internet.