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I had heard that there's a community of people who insufflate caffeine on Reddit, but this one is news to me. Seems a little funny to go through all the troubl

I had heard that there's a community of people who insufflate caffeine on Reddit, but this one is news to me. Seems a little funny to go through all the trouble and extreme stigma of injecting yourself with an IV drug, only to pick ground up coffee beans as your poison of choice (!) The study is interesting mostly for the fact that someone tried it, but ultimately the results don't show a very strong effect. I wouldn't put too much confidence in how well it would replicate either, these kind of studies can have a lot of variation. >Every drug seems to have a “right” way to take it. You [...] booty bump ecstasy That is not really typical. People normally eat it as ecstasy pills, or as MDMA powder. Most recreational drugs can be taken rectally, that usually makes for a higher bio-availability and a faster peak plasma concentration. Some people do that a lot, with everything. It is not specific to ecstasy, that I know of.

germinalphrase 3y ago
A paramedic friend advised that if you ever end up in the hospital in a lot of pain, always opt for the suppository.
- stronglikedan 3y ago
  Your friend isn't wrong. It's pretty much a direct blood vessel highway to the brain.
  - polishdude20 3y ago
    Hows that more direct than an injection?
    - atomicnumber3 3y ago
      Probably the ease and reliability of application. Not everyone is easy to start an IV on, especially if it's hard for them to hold still (like if they're in so much pain that they're considering between IV drugs or a suppository).
    - atdrummond 3y ago
      It isn’t - but if you’re a tough stick, it’s preferable to getting a central line or an IO shot.
    - alvarezbjm-hn 3y ago
      Venous drain doesn't go to the liver, first. Absorption is very regular. Works on unconscious patients. Better that pills in every way, except convenience. Injection is still better.
- leetrout 3y ago
  Reoccurring kidney stone sufferer here! Belladonna and Opium (B&O) suppositories are one of the best things that I've discovered. They were very reluctant to write me a prescription for them but they were life changing last time I had to pass a stone. Dunno what would happen if I asked for one outright... when I tell them dilaudid doesn't do much for me I get treated very skeptically. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03332056 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03332056
  - freedomben 3y ago
    > Dunno what would happen if I asked for one outright... Nowadays unless you're over 65 you'd be labelled with "drug seeking behavior" (in your records) and sent home with nothing and a "come to the hospital when you pass your stone." Forget the fact that the difference between drug-seeking behavior and legitimately needing something stronger is indistinguishable, and forget the fact that it will cost thousands upon thousands of dollars for you to do it in hospital. Thank God they're keeping you safe from the evil Sacklers
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      American healthcare is a mess because of religious shit like this.
      - thsksbd 3y ago
        [dead]
      - petsfed 3y ago
        Its interesting because its a very specific, recent, and almost uniquely American religious concept, that's written into virtually every aspect of our culture. That is, it seems like nowhere else has the idea of purification through suffering really taken hold at such a widespread level for so long. I'd argue its because its just the flipside of the Prosperity Gospel. If you assume that one's physical conditions are a reflection of one's spiritual choices, then your first move when someone says "I'm in pain, please help me with my pain" is to ask "What have you done to deserve this pain? I won't remove God-given pain; if you deserve it, it would be a sin to do so", instead of "Here's something to make the pain manageable while we figure out how to remove the source of the pain".
- TurkishPoptart 3y ago
  What's the reasoning? Instead of an IV? If I was in extreme pain, I would by default opt for an IV, which would be the fastest way to relieve it.
  - germinalphrase 3y ago
    I guess I misspoke a bit in the original comment. Yea - in the hospital, they’ll just inject if possible; however, if a doctor is writing a prescription and you’re offered pills vs a suppository, take the suppository.
timerol 3y ago
There's a footnote below on ecstasy
- _joel 3y ago
  double bum drop
ses1984 3y ago
Was the footnote there when you wrote this comment? >Most people consume ecstasy by mouth, but I’ve heard from many that anal ecstasy is a more satisfying experience. I think the author was being a little facetious.
- polishdude20 3y ago
  More like... fecetious
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    You know what the root word of facetious is? It's not, but it should be.
girvo 3y ago
Nearly any drug (modulo those that have very specific contraindications for it, like codeine) that can be taken rectally can be IVed too. Back when I was still an active heroin addict, I would IV MDMA if I was going out for the night. It’s incredibly intense, more intense than most other drugs when administered that way. bk-MDMA was superior to even MDMA itself when IVed, as well.
- nightowl_games 3y ago
  Just chiming in to say: Holy shit and you've done well to still be alive. You've seen some shit.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
> I had heard that there's a community of people who insufflate caffeine on Reddit I'm curious if it even absorbs well via the sinuses. From experience with powdered caffeine (mixing with shampoo as a folk treatment for hair loss), it doesn't readily dissolve at room temperature water, though of course it dissolves just fine in hot water, which is why the standard quick extraction from coffee beans involves hot water (cold brew by contrast, involves long periods of steeping for a result that still has less caffeine)
- jaggederest 3y ago
  Caffeine is only "sparingly" soluble in water (as opposed to "freely" soluble in boiling water). Chemists have wonderful words to quantify the exact degree of solubility under various conditions: "sparingly soluble" means it generally takes 30-100ml of solvent to dissolve 1g of the material in question. So, if you're hip to the quantity of caffeine in your beans (by, perhaps, grinding and boiling 100g and then analytically extracting the mass of relatively pure caffeine with something like DCM, followed by recrystallization in water maybe), you can figure out how much caffeine will be present in your cold brew based on the quantity of solvent.
reaperman 3y ago
> all the trouble and extreme stigma of injecting yourself IM and subQ is surprisingly not much trouble, as long as you have a relatively pure dissolvable compound and safe solvent (various oils or bacteriostatic water) it takes like 2 minutes and $1.50 in supplies (a $0.25 syringe, two $0.25 needles, and a $1 PVDF/PETF 0.22um syringe filter). Not much more hassle than at-home insulin or TRT injections. But definitely a huge stigma, and often the pharmacokinetics of IM/subQ administration aren't desirable for many drugs.
fuzzfactor 3y ago
Snorting caffeine is one of the most comparable ways to realize that it's just as "safe" as cocaine.
- janderland 3y ago
  What? You must be confounding route of administration with safety. Sure, oral administration is technically the safest because of first pass metabolism, but the choice of drug is a MUCH bigger safety factor. Snorting caffeine is much safer than snorting cocaine by every metric.
  - fuzzfactor 3y ago
    Milligram for milligram the pharmaceutical difference is mainly limited to the local anaesthetic effect not present in the caffeine. Administration is just how you can figure it out for yourself at similar doses. Go ahead and consume a gram or two of caffeine by any means and compare the stress on the heart and other organs, as well as personality. Just because it's cheap, legal, and easily available doesn't mean it's safer by comparison. Also since cocaine users generally consume recreational overdoses doesn't make either one any safer at any dose. Plus think how many more addicts there are even at much less harmful doses. Why do you think some of these hard-core caffeine addicts are injecting it anyway, plus handling it as well as they do. Definitely not recommended for anyone who hasn't already built up the tolerance addicts are known for. Clean living pays off. To go even more extreme, imagine if there were a nuclear war because somebody who was a little overly nervous pushed "the button". What drug do you think would be detected if put to the test?

germinalphrase 3y ago

A paramedic friend advised that if you ever end up in the hospital in a lot of pain, always opt for the suppository.

stronglikedan 3y ago
Your friend isn't wrong. It's pretty much a direct blood vessel highway to the brain.
- polishdude20 3y ago
  Hows that more direct than an injection?
  - atomicnumber3 3y ago
    Probably the ease and reliability of application. Not everyone is easy to start an IV on, especially if it's hard for them to hold still (like if they're in so much pain that they're considering between IV drugs or a suppository).
  - atdrummond 3y ago
    It isn’t - but if you’re a tough stick, it’s preferable to getting a central line or an IO shot.
  - alvarezbjm-hn 3y ago
    Venous drain doesn't go to the liver, first. Absorption is very regular. Works on unconscious patients. Better that pills in every way, except convenience. Injection is still better.
leetrout 3y ago
Reoccurring kidney stone sufferer here! Belladonna and Opium (B&O) suppositories are one of the best things that I've discovered. They were very reluctant to write me a prescription for them but they were life changing last time I had to pass a stone. Dunno what would happen if I asked for one outright... when I tell them dilaudid doesn't do much for me I get treated very skeptically. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03332056 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03332056
- freedomben 3y ago
  > Dunno what would happen if I asked for one outright... Nowadays unless you're over 65 you'd be labelled with "drug seeking behavior" (in your records) and sent home with nothing and a "come to the hospital when you pass your stone." Forget the fact that the difference between drug-seeking behavior and legitimately needing something stronger is indistinguishable, and forget the fact that it will cost thousands upon thousands of dollars for you to do it in hospital. Thank God they're keeping you safe from the evil Sacklers
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    American healthcare is a mess because of religious shit like this.
    - thsksbd 3y ago
      [dead]
    - petsfed 3y ago
      Its interesting because its a very specific, recent, and almost uniquely American religious concept, that's written into virtually every aspect of our culture. That is, it seems like nowhere else has the idea of purification through suffering really taken hold at such a widespread level for so long. I'd argue its because its just the flipside of the Prosperity Gospel. If you assume that one's physical conditions are a reflection of one's spiritual choices, then your first move when someone says "I'm in pain, please help me with my pain" is to ask "What have you done to deserve this pain? I won't remove God-given pain; if you deserve it, it would be a sin to do so", instead of "Here's something to make the pain manageable while we figure out how to remove the source of the pain".
TurkishPoptart 3y ago
What's the reasoning? Instead of an IV? If I was in extreme pain, I would by default opt for an IV, which would be the fastest way to relieve it.
- germinalphrase 3y ago
  I guess I misspoke a bit in the original comment. Yea - in the hospital, they’ll just inject if possible; however, if a doctor is writing a prescription and you’re offered pills vs a suppository, take the suppository.

timerol 3y ago

There's a footnote below on ecstasy

_joel 3y ago
double bum drop

ses1984 3y ago

Was the footnote there when you wrote this comment? >Most people consume ecstasy by mouth, but I’ve heard from many that anal ecstasy is a more satisfying experience. I think the author was being a little facetious.

polishdude20 3y ago
More like... fecetious
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  You know what the root word of facetious is? It's not, but it should be.

girvo 3y ago

Nearly any drug (modulo those that have very specific contraindications for it, like codeine) that can be taken rectally can be IVed too. Back when I was still an active heroin addict, I would IV MDMA if I was going out for the night. It’s incredibly intense, more intense than most other drugs when administered that way. bk-MDMA was superior to even MDMA itself when IVed, as well.

nightowl_games 3y ago
Just chiming in to say: Holy shit and you've done well to still be alive. You've seen some shit.

pcthrowaway 3y ago

> I had heard that there's a community of people who insufflate caffeine on Reddit I'm curious if it even absorbs well via the sinuses. From experience with powdered caffeine (mixing with shampoo as a folk treatment for hair loss), it doesn't readily dissolve at room temperature water, though of course it dissolves just fine in hot water, which is why the standard quick extraction from coffee beans involves hot water (cold brew by contrast, involves long periods of steeping for a result that still has less caffeine)

jaggederest 3y ago
Caffeine is only "sparingly" soluble in water (as opposed to "freely" soluble in boiling water). Chemists have wonderful words to quantify the exact degree of solubility under various conditions: "sparingly soluble" means it generally takes 30-100ml of solvent to dissolve 1g of the material in question. So, if you're hip to the quantity of caffeine in your beans (by, perhaps, grinding and boiling 100g and then analytically extracting the mass of relatively pure caffeine with something like DCM, followed by recrystallization in water maybe), you can figure out how much caffeine will be present in your cold brew based on the quantity of solvent.

reaperman 3y ago

> all the trouble and extreme stigma of injecting yourself IM and subQ is surprisingly not much trouble, as long as you have a relatively pure dissolvable compound and safe solvent (various oils or bacteriostatic water) it takes like 2 minutes and $1.50 in supplies (a $0.25 syringe, two $0.25 needles, and a $1 PVDF/PETF 0.22um syringe filter). Not much more hassle than at-home insulin or TRT injections. But definitely a huge stigma, and often the pharmacokinetics of IM/subQ administration aren't desirable for many drugs.

fuzzfactor 3y ago

Snorting caffeine is one of the most comparable ways to realize that it's just as "safe" as cocaine.

janderland 3y ago
What? You must be confounding route of administration with safety. Sure, oral administration is technically the safest because of first pass metabolism, but the choice of drug is a MUCH bigger safety factor. Snorting caffeine is much safer than snorting cocaine by every metric.
- fuzzfactor 3y ago
  Milligram for milligram the pharmaceutical difference is mainly limited to the local anaesthetic effect not present in the caffeine. Administration is just how you can figure it out for yourself at similar doses. Go ahead and consume a gram or two of caffeine by any means and compare the stress on the heart and other organs, as well as personality. Just because it's cheap, legal, and easily available doesn't mean it's safer by comparison. Also since cocaine users generally consume recreational overdoses doesn't make either one any safer at any dose. Plus think how many more addicts there are even at much less harmful doses. Why do you think some of these hard-core caffeine addicts are injecting it anyway, plus handling it as well as they do. Definitely not recommended for anyone who hasn't already built up the tolerance addicts are known for. Clean living pays off. To go even more extreme, imagine if there were a nuclear war because somebody who was a little overly nervous pushed "the button". What drug do you think would be detected if put to the test?