7 ms·

Weird they don't stock UHT milk. I buy milk for 6 months and keep it in my pantry. I honestly can't tell the difference between modern UHT milk and mass-produce

Weird they don't stock UHT milk. I buy milk for 6 months and keep it in my pantry. I honestly can't tell the difference between modern UHT milk and mass-produced "fresh" milk (at 2% anyway). They could in theory ship in UHT milk instead of fresh, and stock enough extra to last a few more months in winter. It would be fun to make your own cheese down there as a hobby! Eating by the seasons is also pretty interesting, I think. It forces you to expand your gastronomic horizons, explore the cuisine of different regional cultures. Some cultures don't use milk (and thus cheese or butter), some don't use much oil, some are vegetarian while some are nearly all meat. There's preservation by fermentation, by drying, by salting, by burying, by sealing in hardened butter. Some just eat a lot of soup. There's really an infinite number of dishes that express flavor, aroma and texture. If you ever get bored of your food, you can fix that.

jcranmer 3y ago
> They could in theory ship in UHT milk instead of fresh, and stock enough extra to last a few more months in winter. From a prior post [1], the no-flight period for the South pole is ~8 months, which really stretches the shelf life of UHT milk. [1] https://brr.fyi/posts/last-flight-out https://brr.fyi/posts/last-flight-out
- ComputerGuru 3y ago
  If you ignore the "best by" label on UHT milk, it can easily (safely) last 8 months. Especially if you store it at 32/33° F. But more practically, there are different types of containers for UHT milk hermetically sealed to different extents. The more expensive kinds can last years. The US Military says 10 months for "normal" UHT milk stored under "normal" conditions [0]. The more expensive kinds can go much longer. [0]: https://www.dla.mil/Troop-Support/Subsistence/Operational-rations/UHT/ https://www.dla.mil/Troop-Support/Subsistence/Operational-ra...
  - thewopr 3y ago
    I'll also add, most food products down there are "expired" already. When I was down there, it was often a challenge to find the oldest piece of food. I think we found 5 years + beyond the Best By date. Best by dates for shelf stable/frozen food are often not safety related, so the antarctic program just charges forward with whatever they have.
bitdivision 3y ago
I'm surprised you can't tell the difference between UHT and regular milk. I've tried a few brands in the UK, and there's a clear difference in tea / coffee, and it's particularly marked if you're drinking milk on its own. Maybe the UK is lagging behind on UHT? Or I'm just buying the wrong brand.
- DoughnutHole 3y ago
  Coming from drinking Irish milk, American milk already tastes like water. I can understand UHT being interchangeable if the baseline product is already bland.
  - ericd 3y ago
    American milk is very varied, sounds like you’re describing plastic gallon jug skim milk. If you want something a bit heartier, you can probably find creamline milk from a local farm.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      Plastic litres jug milk sold in Ireland and the UK is what both commenters were comparing to the bland UHT milk. Generally everything is available in the USA, but there are some surprising cases where the default product is of noticeable lower quality than the default in Europe.
      - ericd 3y ago
        Yeah, I’d say that the default in the US is generally cheaper and lower quality than the default in France, at least (no experience with Ireland).
        throwaway2037 3y ago
        If you spend the same amount in US as France (milk _is_ more expensive in France), is the quality the same? This comment only seems to confirm that cheaper milk will be worse.
thewopr 3y ago
(creds: I was down to McMurdo as a researcher three times) I suspect this has to do with space and weight constraints, and probably a touch of old-school procurement practices. In the not-too-distant past, basically everything was flown to south pole station, so weight was at a premium. Powdered milk weights a lot less than UHT milk. Now they do a traverse to the pole with sleds and tractors, so weight is less of an issue, but volume might still be. On top of that, procurement may be slow to change. If, in fact, weight is no longer a constraint, it might take years for procurement to change to include buying UHT milk.
- MiguelVieira 3y ago
  Whoa I had no idea: "To reduce the cost and increase the efficiency and reliability of transporting fuel and materials to South Pole Station, USAP established an overland traverse route from McMurdo Station to the South Pole. The traverse route is approximately 1,030 miles long and took several years of route-finding to prove and to mitigate areas with crevassing. This route is traveled by the South Pole Traverse (SPoT), a tractor train that hauls supplies and fuel using specialized sleds. SPoT tractors ascend more than 9,300 feet along the route to Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station. On average, it takes 52 days for the round trip from McMurdo to Pole and back." https://www.southpole.aq/activities/station-logistics.html https://www.southpole.aq/activities/station-logistics.html
  - honkycat 3y ago
    Reading this I am picturing a blowing blizzard and massive tractors crawling over the barren landscape. INTENSE!
    - earthscienceman 3y ago
      It's both intense and the most boring thing you could imagine. Picture day after day in a tractor traveling across a white landscape with another tractor in front and another tractor behind. I have only traveled such things by snowmobile, but I've befriended a few of the traverse folks in Greenland and Antarctica and they described it as "intensely exhilarating and extremely boring".
cush 3y ago
Most milk is ultrapasteurized and homogenized, making the difference between shelf stable milk pretty unnoticeable. Good cream-top milk is on another plane of reality.
goodpoint 3y ago
> Eating by the seasons is also pretty interesting Eating by the seasons is mundane and normal almost everywhere in the world.
- masfuerte 3y ago
  Are you sure? Obesity, caused by eating processed food, is normal almost everywhere.
  - master-lincoln 3y ago
    I doubt this. Obesity, caused by eating processed food is certainly happening in many places, but outside the USA I don't think it's normal
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  For certain definitions of "almost everywhere", I suppose? Care to define that more rigorously? Most American city-dwellers I know wouldn't be aware of in-season food items, and wouldn't care either, because grocery stores stock almost everything year-round, so if you're meal planning based on what's in season it's nearly an afterthought, or superfluous. Growing food in the desert and importing it from the Southern Hemisphere really works to blur those lines for us. When I was preparing fresh meals at home, I considered eating what's in-season and paying attention, but that turned out to be a lot of pointless work.
  - rebolek 3y ago
    Usual definition of "almost everywhere" does not include American cities but almost everywhere else.
  - goodpoint 3y ago
    > For certain definitions of "almost everywhere", I suppose? Care to define that more rigorously? Good question. In my experience it's people who don't live in very developed countries plus people who shop at fresh food markets and countries that have a culture of not eating a lot of processed food e.g. in good part of Europe plus people who live in the countryside. Let's say maybe 90% of human population.
jfengel 3y ago
UHT milk doesn't generally make good cheese. It can be used to make some simple cheeses, like ricotta, but the high temperature changes the proteins enough to make most rennet-curdled cheeses fail. https://cheesemaking.com/blogs/fun-along-the-whey/problems-with-ultra-pasteurized-milk https://cheesemaking.com/blogs/fun-along-the-whey/problems-w... I've heard that you're more likely to have success with reconstituted dry milk than with UHT milk, but I haven't tried it.
3m 3y ago
UHT milk is terrible. As a brit, when I'm abroad I notice it immediately and it ruins an otherwise good cup of tea or coffee.
olddustytrail 3y ago
Really surprised you can't tell the difference between regular milk and UHT. I always assumed UHT was the inspiration for the Dog's Milk scene from Red Dwarf!
aembleton 3y ago
Milk freezes well. If they can afford to carry UHT milk all the way there, then you might as well take the fresh stuff and freeze it. Then it'll keep.
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  It freezes well but will spoil between 2-3 months. Maybe the much lower temperature would delay spoilage a bit more?
ricardobeat 3y ago
It does taste significantly worse than fresh milk if you're not used to it, but definitely better than powdered milk. And bad news is you can't really make decent cheese out of UHT milk, since the proteins have been denatured by the heat.
mgsouth 3y ago
Anchor Full Cream Milk Powder. Powdered, but some of the best milk we've ever tasted. Great for lattes and mochas. IMHO much, much better than UHT. From New Zealand, so wouldn't even have to ship it very far. Expensive, though, ordering it in the U.S.--equivalent of 22 liters is over $50. Popular in Dominican Republic and think other parts of Lat. Am., so can probably get it cheaper.

jcranmer 3y ago

> They could in theory ship in UHT milk instead of fresh, and stock enough extra to last a few more months in winter. From a prior post [1], the no-flight period for the South pole is ~8 months, which really stretches the shelf life of UHT milk. [1] https://brr.fyi/posts/last-flight-out https://brr.fyi/posts/last-flight-out

ComputerGuru 3y ago
If you ignore the "best by" label on UHT milk, it can easily (safely) last 8 months. Especially if you store it at 32/33° F. But more practically, there are different types of containers for UHT milk hermetically sealed to different extents. The more expensive kinds can last years. The US Military says 10 months for "normal" UHT milk stored under "normal" conditions [0]. The more expensive kinds can go much longer. [0]: https://www.dla.mil/Troop-Support/Subsistence/Operational-rations/UHT/ https://www.dla.mil/Troop-Support/Subsistence/Operational-ra...
- thewopr 3y ago
  I'll also add, most food products down there are "expired" already. When I was down there, it was often a challenge to find the oldest piece of food. I think we found 5 years + beyond the Best By date. Best by dates for shelf stable/frozen food are often not safety related, so the antarctic program just charges forward with whatever they have.

bitdivision 3y ago

I'm surprised you can't tell the difference between UHT and regular milk. I've tried a few brands in the UK, and there's a clear difference in tea / coffee, and it's particularly marked if you're drinking milk on its own. Maybe the UK is lagging behind on UHT? Or I'm just buying the wrong brand.

DoughnutHole 3y ago
Coming from drinking Irish milk, American milk already tastes like water. I can understand UHT being interchangeable if the baseline product is already bland.
- ericd 3y ago
  American milk is very varied, sounds like you’re describing plastic gallon jug skim milk. If you want something a bit heartier, you can probably find creamline milk from a local farm.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Plastic litres jug milk sold in Ireland and the UK is what both commenters were comparing to the bland UHT milk. Generally everything is available in the USA, but there are some surprising cases where the default product is of noticeable lower quality than the default in Europe.
    - ericd 3y ago
      Yeah, I’d say that the default in the US is generally cheaper and lower quality than the default in France, at least (no experience with Ireland).
      - throwaway2037 3y ago
        If you spend the same amount in US as France (milk _is_ more expensive in France), is the quality the same? This comment only seems to confirm that cheaper milk will be worse.

thewopr 3y ago

(creds: I was down to McMurdo as a researcher three times) I suspect this has to do with space and weight constraints, and probably a touch of old-school procurement practices. In the not-too-distant past, basically everything was flown to south pole station, so weight was at a premium. Powdered milk weights a lot less than UHT milk. Now they do a traverse to the pole with sleds and tractors, so weight is less of an issue, but volume might still be. On top of that, procurement may be slow to change. If, in fact, weight is no longer a constraint, it might take years for procurement to change to include buying UHT milk.

MiguelVieira 3y ago
Whoa I had no idea: "To reduce the cost and increase the efficiency and reliability of transporting fuel and materials to South Pole Station, USAP established an overland traverse route from McMurdo Station to the South Pole. The traverse route is approximately 1,030 miles long and took several years of route-finding to prove and to mitigate areas with crevassing. This route is traveled by the South Pole Traverse (SPoT), a tractor train that hauls supplies and fuel using specialized sleds. SPoT tractors ascend more than 9,300 feet along the route to Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station. On average, it takes 52 days for the round trip from McMurdo to Pole and back." https://www.southpole.aq/activities/station-logistics.html https://www.southpole.aq/activities/station-logistics.html
- honkycat 3y ago
  Reading this I am picturing a blowing blizzard and massive tractors crawling over the barren landscape. INTENSE!
  - earthscienceman 3y ago
    It's both intense and the most boring thing you could imagine. Picture day after day in a tractor traveling across a white landscape with another tractor in front and another tractor behind. I have only traveled such things by snowmobile, but I've befriended a few of the traverse folks in Greenland and Antarctica and they described it as "intensely exhilarating and extremely boring".

cush 3y ago

Most milk is ultrapasteurized and homogenized, making the difference between shelf stable milk pretty unnoticeable. Good cream-top milk is on another plane of reality.

goodpoint 3y ago

> Eating by the seasons is also pretty interesting Eating by the seasons is mundane and normal almost everywhere in the world.

masfuerte 3y ago
Are you sure? Obesity, caused by eating processed food, is normal almost everywhere.
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  I doubt this. Obesity, caused by eating processed food is certainly happening in many places, but outside the USA I don't think it's normal
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
For certain definitions of "almost everywhere", I suppose? Care to define that more rigorously? Most American city-dwellers I know wouldn't be aware of in-season food items, and wouldn't care either, because grocery stores stock almost everything year-round, so if you're meal planning based on what's in season it's nearly an afterthought, or superfluous. Growing food in the desert and importing it from the Southern Hemisphere really works to blur those lines for us. When I was preparing fresh meals at home, I considered eating what's in-season and paying attention, but that turned out to be a lot of pointless work.
- rebolek 3y ago
  Usual definition of "almost everywhere" does not include American cities but almost everywhere else.
- goodpoint 3y ago
  > For certain definitions of "almost everywhere", I suppose? Care to define that more rigorously? Good question. In my experience it's people who don't live in very developed countries plus people who shop at fresh food markets and countries that have a culture of not eating a lot of processed food e.g. in good part of Europe plus people who live in the countryside. Let's say maybe 90% of human population.

jfengel 3y ago

UHT milk doesn't generally make good cheese. It can be used to make some simple cheeses, like ricotta, but the high temperature changes the proteins enough to make most rennet-curdled cheeses fail. https://cheesemaking.com/blogs/fun-along-the-whey/problems-with-ultra-pasteurized-milk https://cheesemaking.com/blogs/fun-along-the-whey/problems-w... I've heard that you're more likely to have success with reconstituted dry milk than with UHT milk, but I haven't tried it.

3m 3y ago

UHT milk is terrible. As a brit, when I'm abroad I notice it immediately and it ruins an otherwise good cup of tea or coffee.

olddustytrail 3y ago

Really surprised you can't tell the difference between regular milk and UHT. I always assumed UHT was the inspiration for the Dog's Milk scene from Red Dwarf!

aembleton 3y ago

Milk freezes well. If they can afford to carry UHT milk all the way there, then you might as well take the fresh stuff and freeze it. Then it'll keep.

ricardobeat 3y ago
It freezes well but will spoil between 2-3 months. Maybe the much lower temperature would delay spoilage a bit more?

ricardobeat 3y ago

It does taste significantly worse than fresh milk if you're not used to it, but definitely better than powdered milk. And bad news is you can't really make decent cheese out of UHT milk, since the proteins have been denatured by the heat.

mgsouth 3y ago

Anchor Full Cream Milk Powder. Powdered, but some of the best milk we've ever tasted. Great for lattes and mochas. IMHO much, much better than UHT. From New Zealand, so wouldn't even have to ship it very far. Expensive, though, ordering it in the U.S.--equivalent of 22 liters is over $50. Popular in Dominican Republic and think other parts of Lat. Am., so can probably get it cheaper.