4 ms·

"Ukrainian children are separated from their families" Really? Would you leave an orphan in the war zone or move them to a safe place? Calling that a 'genocide

by gdy 3y ago

"Ukrainian children are separated from their families" Really? Would you leave an orphan in the war zone or move them to a safe place? Calling that a 'genocide' is cynical distortion and serves only Ukrainian propaganda. "Adult Ukrainians have reportedly also been deported " "Reportedly"? "and made to live as Russians" What does it even mean? Drinking vodka and playing balalaika? "There's plenty of talk in the Russian media that all Ukrainians believe Ukrainian is a valid ethnicity should be killed." "Plenty"? I don't know what you are talking about but just go to Ukrainian segment of Facebook, which allowed hate speech against Russians, and tons of genocidal fantasies.

mcv 3y ago
> Would you leave an orphan in the war zone or move them to a safe place? No, I would reunite them with their families. Intentionally refusing to do so and leaving them with Russian families to raise as Russians is genocide. You don't get to whitewash that. This is not some people on Facebook; the UN has condemned it, the ICC issued arrest warrants, it's widely documented. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russia... for some sources. Same with the other stuff. Your rhetoric doesn't change the facts.
- gdy 3y ago
  [flagged]
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  > Your rhetoric doesn't change the facts. Once you understand someone is delusional, there is no point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukr... 7 countries voted that it is, and prominent historians at ivy league institutions (you know those one's people badly want to get into so they can learn from the worlds top experts) have said it definitely is. As far as I'm concerned the matter is pretty settled. The person you're talking to doesn't have any desire at all in understanding you, nor do they have any desire to create the best argument against themselves and respond to that.
  - gdy 3y ago
    "7 countries voted that it is" That's 7 out 193 countries. Hmm, I wonder why. By the way, the Ukraine itself didn't recognize the obvious genocide of Armenians by Turkey during WW1.[0] Countries can be very flexible when recognizing or not recognizing something as genocide is in their interest. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide#International_recognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide#Internationa...
    - mcv 3y ago
      I'm sure you understand why. Ukraine is in a vulnerable position right now and needs all the allies it can get. Alienating Turkey would be foolish. And considering the Armenian genocide happened a long time ago, it's not exactly worth it to bring this up now. Turkey, especially under Erdogan, is definitely a problematic country, but not one that either Ukraine or NATO can afford to alienate right now. Current issues take precedence over the atrocities of the past.
      - gdy 3y ago
        "I'm sure you understand why. Ukraine is in a vulnerable position right now" Seriously? The Ukraine had over 30 years of independence for that.
        mcv 3y ago
        What does that have to do with anything? Is this some kind of purity test for you? During their 30 years of independence, Ukraine has struggled with corruption, authoritarianism, two revolutions against authoritarianism, and a Russian invasion. They've had bigger fish to fry at home than to cast judgement on neighbouring countries. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_recognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_recognition a total of 34 countries have recognised the Armenian genocide as genocide. That's not a lot. Even the UK and half of Scandinavia haven't. That Ukraine hasn't means nothing, it doesn't mean they don't consider it genocide, and it certainly doesn't mean they're okay with genocide. You're being overly anal about this issue.

by gdy 3y ago

mcv 3y ago

> Would you leave an orphan in the war zone or move them to a safe place? No, I would reunite them with their families. Intentionally refusing to do so and leaving them with Russian families to raise as Russians is genocide. You don't get to whitewash that. This is not some people on Facebook; the UN has condemned it, the ICC issued arrest warrants, it's widely documented. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russia... for some sources. Same with the other stuff. Your rhetoric doesn't change the facts.

gdy 3y ago
[flagged]
hayst4ck 3y ago
> Your rhetoric doesn't change the facts. Once you understand someone is delusional, there is no point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukr... 7 countries voted that it is, and prominent historians at ivy league institutions (you know those one's people badly want to get into so they can learn from the worlds top experts) have said it definitely is. As far as I'm concerned the matter is pretty settled. The person you're talking to doesn't have any desire at all in understanding you, nor do they have any desire to create the best argument against themselves and respond to that.
- gdy 3y ago
  "7 countries voted that it is" That's 7 out 193 countries. Hmm, I wonder why. By the way, the Ukraine itself didn't recognize the obvious genocide of Armenians by Turkey during WW1.[0] Countries can be very flexible when recognizing or not recognizing something as genocide is in their interest. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide#International_recognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide#Internationa...
  - mcv 3y ago
    I'm sure you understand why. Ukraine is in a vulnerable position right now and needs all the allies it can get. Alienating Turkey would be foolish. And considering the Armenian genocide happened a long time ago, it's not exactly worth it to bring this up now. Turkey, especially under Erdogan, is definitely a problematic country, but not one that either Ukraine or NATO can afford to alienate right now. Current issues take precedence over the atrocities of the past.
    - gdy 3y ago
      "I'm sure you understand why. Ukraine is in a vulnerable position right now" Seriously? The Ukraine had over 30 years of independence for that.
      - mcv 3y ago
        What does that have to do with anything? Is this some kind of purity test for you? During their 30 years of independence, Ukraine has struggled with corruption, authoritarianism, two revolutions against authoritarianism, and a Russian invasion. They've had bigger fish to fry at home than to cast judgement on neighbouring countries. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_recognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_recognition a total of 34 countries have recognised the Armenian genocide as genocide. That's not a lot. Even the UK and half of Scandinavia haven't. That Ukraine hasn't means nothing, it doesn't mean they don't consider it genocide, and it certainly doesn't mean they're okay with genocide. You're being overly anal about this issue.