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This is how most of my conversations with “ideological cyclists” (for lack of a better term) tend to go. I’m very supportive of cycling, but if you aren’t healt

This is how most of my conversations with “ideological cyclists” (for lack of a better term) tend to go. I’m very supportive of cycling, but if you aren’t healthy or if you have kids giving up your car is enormously inconvenient. Yes, you can teach your kids to ride, but cycling is still much more dangerous than driving. Yes, you can rent a car or get an uber as needed, but it’s far more convenient to just jump in one’s own car. Yes, you can prepare for really cold or precipitous weather to a degree, but it’s way more convenient to simply not have to monitor the weather all the time and tote around your extra cycling clothes. And there’s really nothing you can do about hot weather unless your destination has a shower or you can otherwise make do with being sweaty. When you add up all of these decently-sized inconveniences, it just doesn’t make sense to do away with your car except perhaps in certain ideal situations (healthy, no kids, urban/great public transit, close to work, not traveling out of the area to visit family often, etc). The best I can realistically do is family car + bike. EDIT: I'm getting throttled; can't respond to any more comments for a few hours.

agentgumshoe 3y ago
And good luck getting your five year old to ride 20km... I think the sensible thing (assuming affording the car in the first place is fine), is to make good decisions about when to use a car or bike or walk or use transit. It doesn't have to be binary, much as everything except gender seems to be these days.
ubermonkey 3y ago
Exactly. What's infuriating about these all or nothing articles is the exclusion of "car lite" approaches. Over time and kind of slowly, my wife and I realized we really only needed one car. When the market moved around to make selling one of them way way too attractive, we did so (it was an older Porsche, and the market for those went UTTERLY NUTS -- I had it for nearly 20 years and sold it for about 85% what I paid for it). That was really fine until she took a different job that was no longer public-transit friendly (ironically, it's a job working for the city). I think most couples would've sighed and bought a second car, but we really, really didn't want to -- so we bought a small motorcycle instead. While not suitable for the freeways, provides JUST ENOUGH supplemental mobility that the idea of a second car seems absurd now (especially given the price; the bike was $4800 and gets 80mpg). (We DID think about ebikes, but they cost almost as much without providing nearly the utility.)
daneel_w 3y ago
> "... or if you have kids giving up your car is enormously inconvenient." > "Yes, you can teach your kids to ride, but cycling is still much more dangerous than driving." > "Yes, you can rent a car or get an uber as needed, but it’s far more convenient to just jump in one’s own car." > "Yes, you can prepare for really cold or precipitous weather to a degree, but it’s way more convenient to simply not have to monitor the weather all the time and tote around your extra cycling clothes." > "And there’s really nothing you can do about hot weather unless your destination has a shower or you can otherwise make do with being sweaty." > "The best I can realistically do is family car + bike." I don't think I've ever seen or heard anyone before portraying the weather and transporting oneself without a car as such an ordeal and struggle. Though, if you life well outside the city I can understand the position. When I grew up (in what was then a ~230k pop. city) only one single kid in my class had parents that cared about having a car, and all of us managed just fine getting to and from school, friends and various activities by foot, bicycle and public transport. We survived, and we turned out OK - perhaps more than OK, with a bit of the fortitude of not expecting or requiring constant conveniences or suffering the perspective that any transport without car is "enormously inconvenient".
- throwaway894345 3y ago
  > I don't think I've ever seen or heard anyone before portraying the weather and transporting oneself without a car as such an ordeal and struggle. Though, if you life well outside the city I can understand the position. You probably live in a pretty mild climate. In my part of the planet, temperatures range from -20F to 110F and we get a decent amount of precipitation. Moreover, the average commute exceeds 10 miles, and low population density means public transit options are at best poor but more likely nonexistent. Interestingly, even in countries famous for their cycling infrastructure, car ownership (and average car weight) is increasing. It seems it's hard to beat the convenience of driving. E.g.: * Netherlands: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358798695_The_widespread_car_ownership_in_the_Netherlands https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358798695_The_wides... * Denmark: https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/234032816/ELISA_project_Analysis_and_prediction_of_private_car_ownership_and_use_in_Denmark_final_report.pdf https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/234032816...

agentgumshoe 3y ago

And good luck getting your five year old to ride 20km... I think the sensible thing (assuming affording the car in the first place is fine), is to make good decisions about when to use a car or bike or walk or use transit. It doesn't have to be binary, much as everything except gender seems to be these days.

ubermonkey 3y ago

Exactly. What's infuriating about these all or nothing articles is the exclusion of "car lite" approaches. Over time and kind of slowly, my wife and I realized we really only needed one car. When the market moved around to make selling one of them way way too attractive, we did so (it was an older Porsche, and the market for those went UTTERLY NUTS -- I had it for nearly 20 years and sold it for about 85% what I paid for it). That was really fine until she took a different job that was no longer public-transit friendly (ironically, it's a job working for the city). I think most couples would've sighed and bought a second car, but we really, really didn't want to -- so we bought a small motorcycle instead. While not suitable for the freeways, provides JUST ENOUGH supplemental mobility that the idea of a second car seems absurd now (especially given the price; the bike was $4800 and gets 80mpg). (We DID think about ebikes, but they cost almost as much without providing nearly the utility.)

daneel_w 3y ago

> "... or if you have kids giving up your car is enormously inconvenient." > "Yes, you can teach your kids to ride, but cycling is still much more dangerous than driving." > "Yes, you can rent a car or get an uber as needed, but it’s far more convenient to just jump in one’s own car." > "Yes, you can prepare for really cold or precipitous weather to a degree, but it’s way more convenient to simply not have to monitor the weather all the time and tote around your extra cycling clothes." > "And there’s really nothing you can do about hot weather unless your destination has a shower or you can otherwise make do with being sweaty." > "The best I can realistically do is family car + bike." I don't think I've ever seen or heard anyone before portraying the weather and transporting oneself without a car as such an ordeal and struggle. Though, if you life well outside the city I can understand the position. When I grew up (in what was then a ~230k pop. city) only one single kid in my class had parents that cared about having a car, and all of us managed just fine getting to and from school, friends and various activities by foot, bicycle and public transport. We survived, and we turned out OK - perhaps more than OK, with a bit of the fortitude of not expecting or requiring constant conveniences or suffering the perspective that any transport without car is "enormously inconvenient".

throwaway894345 3y ago
> I don't think I've ever seen or heard anyone before portraying the weather and transporting oneself without a car as such an ordeal and struggle. Though, if you life well outside the city I can understand the position. You probably live in a pretty mild climate. In my part of the planet, temperatures range from -20F to 110F and we get a decent amount of precipitation. Moreover, the average commute exceeds 10 miles, and low population density means public transit options are at best poor but more likely nonexistent. Interestingly, even in countries famous for their cycling infrastructure, car ownership (and average car weight) is increasing. It seems it's hard to beat the convenience of driving. E.g.: * Netherlands: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358798695_The_widespread_car_ownership_in_the_Netherlands https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358798695_The_wides... * Denmark: https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/234032816/ELISA_project_Analysis_and_prediction_of_private_car_ownership_and_use_in_Denmark_final_report.pdf https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/234032816...