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That's pure BEV propaganda. It is pure gibberish. In reality, hydrogen is guaranteed to win this. BEVs are unsustainable and the whole conversation is based on

by _hypx 3y ago

That's pure BEV propaganda. It is pure gibberish. In reality, hydrogen is guaranteed to win this. BEVs are unsustainable and the whole conversation is based on the delusion of people who have invested too much on that side. Imagine accepting that hydrogen is fundamental to aviation or shipping, but somehow believing that it is an elaborate conspiracy by the oil companies to push it in cars. That is beyond ludicrous. It is painfully obvious that BEV fans have gone off the deep end and are failing to realize that technology is moving beyond batteries.

Gwypaas 3y ago
Meanwhile in reality: "Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023" https://thedriven.io/2023/05/26/tesla-model-y-overtakes-corolla-to-be-worlds-best-selling-car-in-2023/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/26/tesla-model-y-overtakes-coro...
- _hypx 3y ago
  And it is just a repeat of diesel cars taking off in sales when BEVs where just getting started. Again, more BEV propaganda and more promotion of unsustainably dumb ideas. A completely waste of time and ultimate missing the point: It is about stopping climate change, not about sales numbers. A point that Tesla fanboys consistently fail to grasp.
  - jabl 3y ago
    So what are you proposing, exactly? Hydrogen storage remains an extremely tough problem, liquid, compressed, hydrides etc etc are all both expensive and offer poor energy density. Likewise fuel cells after decades of research remain expensive. Batteries, meanwhile, are rapidly advancing, and while they are heavy they offer good economics through very high grid-to-wheel efficiency.
    - _hypx 3y ago
      The "proposal" is simply pointing out that those claims are simply false. Hydrogen storage is a solved problem. BEV fanatics are just lying about it. In reality, the whole thing is a disruptive technology to BEVs since it fundamentally solves the weaknesses of BEVs. It is entirely a matter of when it displaces BEVs, not if. This will become more obvious when hydrogen cars become no more expensive than ICE cars.
      - jabl 3y ago
        > The "proposal" is simply pointing out that those claims are simply false. Then you can surely point out some peer-reviewed articles detailing this. Merely confidently stating something doesn't make it true. > Hydrogen storage is a solved problem. Awesome, I'm happy to hear about these recent breakthroughs I must have missed. Can you provide references please? > In reality, the whole thing is a disruptive technology to BEVs since it fundamentally solves the weaknesses of BEVs. It is entirely a matter of when it displaces BEVs, not if. If we could figure out how to store hydrogen cheaply with decent energy density, and cheap high efficiency electrolyzers and fuel cells, hydrogen would be an obvious winner. But so far it seems we haven't figured out answers to these questions, despite decades of research. But maybe you can provide references to research breakthroughs I have missed? > This will become more obvious when hydrogen cars become no more expensive than ICE cars. Sure. In the meantime it seems BEV's are on track to become cheaper than ICE cars within a decade or so, so while we wait for the hydrogen revolution we can at least decarbonize large parts of road transport.
        _hypx 3y ago
        You’re using a gish gallop style list of random claims. There is not one science article that pushes back on every one of your points. The main thing to note is that fuel cell cars already exist. They already are cars that can be bought now and already drive like real cars. That alone debunks a vast number of supposedly unsolved problems. Meanwhile, electrolysis approaches 100% efficiency: https://www.inceptivemind.com/hysatas-record-breaking-electrolyzer-claims-energy-efficiency/23711/ https://www.inceptivemind.com/hysatas-record-breaking-electr... The most you can say is that BEVs are a solution for right now. Even then it's a pretty bad one since PHEVs exist and arguably far more practical. But hydrogen will displace it in the future.

by _hypx 3y ago

Gwypaas 3y ago

Meanwhile in reality: "Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023" https://thedriven.io/2023/05/26/tesla-model-y-overtakes-corolla-to-be-worlds-best-selling-car-in-2023/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/26/tesla-model-y-overtakes-coro...

_hypx 3y ago
And it is just a repeat of diesel cars taking off in sales when BEVs where just getting started. Again, more BEV propaganda and more promotion of unsustainably dumb ideas. A completely waste of time and ultimate missing the point: It is about stopping climate change, not about sales numbers. A point that Tesla fanboys consistently fail to grasp.
- jabl 3y ago
  So what are you proposing, exactly? Hydrogen storage remains an extremely tough problem, liquid, compressed, hydrides etc etc are all both expensive and offer poor energy density. Likewise fuel cells after decades of research remain expensive. Batteries, meanwhile, are rapidly advancing, and while they are heavy they offer good economics through very high grid-to-wheel efficiency.
  - _hypx 3y ago
    The "proposal" is simply pointing out that those claims are simply false. Hydrogen storage is a solved problem. BEV fanatics are just lying about it. In reality, the whole thing is a disruptive technology to BEVs since it fundamentally solves the weaknesses of BEVs. It is entirely a matter of when it displaces BEVs, not if. This will become more obvious when hydrogen cars become no more expensive than ICE cars.
    - jabl 3y ago
      > The "proposal" is simply pointing out that those claims are simply false. Then you can surely point out some peer-reviewed articles detailing this. Merely confidently stating something doesn't make it true. > Hydrogen storage is a solved problem. Awesome, I'm happy to hear about these recent breakthroughs I must have missed. Can you provide references please? > In reality, the whole thing is a disruptive technology to BEVs since it fundamentally solves the weaknesses of BEVs. It is entirely a matter of when it displaces BEVs, not if. If we could figure out how to store hydrogen cheaply with decent energy density, and cheap high efficiency electrolyzers and fuel cells, hydrogen would be an obvious winner. But so far it seems we haven't figured out answers to these questions, despite decades of research. But maybe you can provide references to research breakthroughs I have missed? > This will become more obvious when hydrogen cars become no more expensive than ICE cars. Sure. In the meantime it seems BEV's are on track to become cheaper than ICE cars within a decade or so, so while we wait for the hydrogen revolution we can at least decarbonize large parts of road transport.
      - _hypx 3y ago
        You’re using a gish gallop style list of random claims. There is not one science article that pushes back on every one of your points. The main thing to note is that fuel cell cars already exist. They already are cars that can be bought now and already drive like real cars. That alone debunks a vast number of supposedly unsolved problems. Meanwhile, electrolysis approaches 100% efficiency: https://www.inceptivemind.com/hysatas-record-breaking-electrolyzer-claims-energy-efficiency/23711/ https://www.inceptivemind.com/hysatas-record-breaking-electr... The most you can say is that BEVs are a solution for right now. Even then it's a pretty bad one since PHEVs exist and arguably far more practical. But hydrogen will displace it in the future.