4 ms·

Psychology isn't accepted as a hard science, perhaps an applied science. Since there really isn't a precise follow to the scientific method, hypothesis - infere

Psychology isn't accepted as a hard science, perhaps an applied science. Since there really isn't a precise follow to the scientific method, hypothesis - inference - conclusion.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
So Astronomy is not a hard science? Because there is only observation, no testing of hypothesis?
- naillo 3y ago
  They can test it in the limited sense of simulation. Not ideal but it's more than even psychologists can do
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    That is so completely false that I fear you are responding purely by a bias against psychology and have not read anything about it. Of course you can form a hypothesis, and test it on real live humans, gather data and check results.
willcipriano 3y ago
I don't think a lot of people know this. The evidence required for a physiological intervention is lower than a surgical or pharmaceutical intervention. The AMA used to lump psychology with things like chiropractic, acupuncture and homeopathy until they were sued by chiropractors under antitrust law in 1987.
- boppo1 3y ago
  I wish there was a succinct way to communicate this. Lots of people I know revere psychologists' word as end-all be all, beyond doubt. To question it makes them think I'm questioning physics. There are good ideas in the field, to be sure. But on the other hand...
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    For me the scariest part is its the only speciality that we allow to imprison people (involuntary holds) and they can keep people out of prison (not fit to stand trial). They also often influence public policy. That's a lot of power for people who can't do a double blind study most of the time.
    - p-e-w 3y ago
      It's even worse than that: Some jurisdictions (including California IIRC) allow involuntary psychiatric holds based on the assessment of people (like law enforcement officers) who have no psychological qualifications whatsoever. This is without a doubt one of the worst and most normalized human rights violations happening in the world today, and the scale and impact of it is hard to imagine.
      - throwaway426079 3y ago
        I have seen police arrest people under section 136 of the UK's Mental Health Act in circumstances where no expertise is needed to see that the person is a danger to themselves or others. The police then take that person to a place of safety, usually a hospital.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    People seem to be confusing clinical with academic psychology. While the former uses a lot of the more well-established concepts(like conditioning) from the latter, it's very much its own discipline, and it actually has much more rigorous research methods than academic psychology because treatments are subject to regulatory approval. I can speak from a lot of experience when I say I would trust a clinical psychologist over a psychiatrist any day of the week. Psychiatrists are just doctors who learn to prescribe medication based on a simple set of rules and psychometry. There are psychiatrists who take their field very seriously, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
    - willcipriano 3y ago

Psychology isn't accepted as a hard science, perhaps an applied science. Since there really isn't a precise follow to the scientific method, hypothesis - inference - conclusion.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

So Astronomy is not a hard science? Because there is only observation, no testing of hypothesis?

naillo 3y ago
They can test it in the limited sense of simulation. Not ideal but it's more than even psychologists can do
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  That is so completely false that I fear you are responding purely by a bias against psychology and have not read anything about it. Of course you can form a hypothesis, and test it on real live humans, gather data and check results.

willcipriano 3y ago

I don't think a lot of people know this. The evidence required for a physiological intervention is lower than a surgical or pharmaceutical intervention. The AMA used to lump psychology with things like chiropractic, acupuncture and homeopathy until they were sued by chiropractors under antitrust law in 1987.

boppo1 3y ago
I wish there was a succinct way to communicate this. Lots of people I know revere psychologists' word as end-all be all, beyond doubt. To question it makes them think I'm questioning physics. There are good ideas in the field, to be sure. But on the other hand...
- willcipriano 3y ago
  For me the scariest part is its the only speciality that we allow to imprison people (involuntary holds) and they can keep people out of prison (not fit to stand trial). They also often influence public policy. That's a lot of power for people who can't do a double blind study most of the time.
  - p-e-w 3y ago
    It's even worse than that: Some jurisdictions (including California IIRC) allow involuntary psychiatric holds based on the assessment of people (like law enforcement officers) who have no psychological qualifications whatsoever. This is without a doubt one of the worst and most normalized human rights violations happening in the world today, and the scale and impact of it is hard to imagine.
    - throwaway426079 3y ago
      I have seen police arrest people under section 136 of the UK's Mental Health Act in circumstances where no expertise is needed to see that the person is a danger to themselves or others. The police then take that person to a place of safety, usually a hospital.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  People seem to be confusing clinical with academic psychology. While the former uses a lot of the more well-established concepts(like conditioning) from the latter, it's very much its own discipline, and it actually has much more rigorous research methods than academic psychology because treatments are subject to regulatory approval. I can speak from a lot of experience when I say I would trust a clinical psychologist over a psychiatrist any day of the week. Psychiatrists are just doctors who learn to prescribe medication based on a simple set of rules and psychometry. There are psychiatrists who take their field very seriously, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
  - willcipriano 3y ago