7 ms·

The ideological perspective would not exist if nuclear was economic. It is simply an easy boogeyman to blame. SMR are not looking that hot either, looks like t

The ideological perspective would not exist if nuclear was economic. It is simply an easy boogeyman to blame. SMR are not looking that hot either, looks like the prevalent truth from the 70 years of nuclear construction: that bigger is better due to the large fixed costs, stays true even in 2023. https://www.wired.com/story/the-dream-of-mini-nuclear-plants-hangs-in-the-balance/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-dream-of-mini-nuclear-plants...

karmakurtisaani 3y ago
That sounds very reasonable. However, where I've seen this ideological aspect is for example in Finland where the permits for nuclear plants are very difficult to obtain. So once a permit is granted, they want to make as massive plants as possible, leading to big risks in construction (see Olkiluoto 3 for example, one of the most expensive constructions in history).
- pyrale 3y ago
  > see Olkiluoto 3 for example, one of the most expensive constructions in history Dimensioning of Olkiluoto 3 is unrelated to Finnish regulation, the reactor was designed by France and Germany based on economies of scales, not specifically for a local project.
  - karmakurtisaani 3y ago
    Yes, but only 1 permission for a plant was given in what, 20 years?
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      How many plants applied for permission and were turned down? 0?
      - karmakurtisaani 3y ago
        I can't say and can't even guess where to find that information. However, I believe if there was a concentrated effort to develop and build small-scale reactors, there would be use for them. But if the permission process is heavily regulated and political, who will invest in such reactors? I still remember when Olkiluoto 3 was approved, the Green party left the government out of protest. And in 2014 they threatened to leave the government again if they approve some change in another plant's permit. That's the level of ideological opposition we're talking about. Luckily, the tide is turning, but it's highly annoying that this needs to be an issue.
KptMarchewa 3y ago
The nuclear solution is framed as non economic because of decades of ideologically-driven sabotage; when nuclear plants were build en masse they were cheap. Now every reactor is apparently it's own research project since practical expertise in this field became scarce. EPR's debacle is good example here. Meanwhile, Koreans have been steadily building new plants without giant cost overruns and delays.
- Gwypaas 3y ago
  They weren't. > The costs of the French nuclear scale-up: A case of negative learning by doing https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0301421510003526 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014... Meanwhile in South Korea, is this the method you propose to get "cheap nuclear"? > In November 2012 it was discovered that over 5,000 small components used in five reactors at Yeonggwang Nuclear Power Plant had not been properly certified; eight suppliers had faked 60 warranties for the parts. Two reactors were shut down for component replacement, which was likely to cause power shortages in South Korea during the winter.[25] Reuters reported this as South Korea's worst nuclear crisis, highlighting a lack of transparency on nuclear safety and the dual roles of South Korea's nuclear regulators on supervision and promotion.[26] This incident followed the prosecution of five senior engineers for the coverup of a serious loss of power and cooling incident at Kori Nuclear Power Plant, which was subsequently graded at INES level 2.[25][27] > In 2013, there was a scandal involving the use of counterfeit parts in nuclear plants and faked quality assurance certificates. In June 2013 Kori 2 and Shin Wolsong 1 were shut down, and Kori 1 and Shin Wolsong 2 ordered to remain offline, until safety-related control cabling with forged safety certificates is replaced.[28] Control cabling in the first APR-1400s under construction had to be replaced delaying construction by up to a year.[29] In October 2013 about 100 people were indicted for falsifying safety documents, including a former chief executive of Korea Hydro & Nuclear Power and a vice-president of Korea Electric Power Corporation.[30] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_South_Korea#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_South_Korea#H...
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    Turns out everything works properly, everything is operational. So much hanging at straws.

karmakurtisaani 3y ago

That sounds very reasonable. However, where I've seen this ideological aspect is for example in Finland where the permits for nuclear plants are very difficult to obtain. So once a permit is granted, they want to make as massive plants as possible, leading to big risks in construction (see Olkiluoto 3 for example, one of the most expensive constructions in history).

pyrale 3y ago
> see Olkiluoto 3 for example, one of the most expensive constructions in history Dimensioning of Olkiluoto 3 is unrelated to Finnish regulation, the reactor was designed by France and Germany based on economies of scales, not specifically for a local project.
- karmakurtisaani 3y ago
  Yes, but only 1 permission for a plant was given in what, 20 years?
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    How many plants applied for permission and were turned down? 0?
    - karmakurtisaani 3y ago
      I can't say and can't even guess where to find that information. However, I believe if there was a concentrated effort to develop and build small-scale reactors, there would be use for them. But if the permission process is heavily regulated and political, who will invest in such reactors? I still remember when Olkiluoto 3 was approved, the Green party left the government out of protest. And in 2014 they threatened to leave the government again if they approve some change in another plant's permit. That's the level of ideological opposition we're talking about. Luckily, the tide is turning, but it's highly annoying that this needs to be an issue.

KptMarchewa 3y ago

The nuclear solution is framed as non economic because of decades of ideologically-driven sabotage; when nuclear plants were build en masse they were cheap. Now every reactor is apparently it's own research project since practical expertise in this field became scarce. EPR's debacle is good example here. Meanwhile, Koreans have been steadily building new plants without giant cost overruns and delays.

Gwypaas 3y ago
They weren't. > The costs of the French nuclear scale-up: A case of negative learning by doing https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0301421510003526 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014... Meanwhile in South Korea, is this the method you propose to get "cheap nuclear"? > In November 2012 it was discovered that over 5,000 small components used in five reactors at Yeonggwang Nuclear Power Plant had not been properly certified; eight suppliers had faked 60 warranties for the parts. Two reactors were shut down for component replacement, which was likely to cause power shortages in South Korea during the winter.[25] Reuters reported this as South Korea's worst nuclear crisis, highlighting a lack of transparency on nuclear safety and the dual roles of South Korea's nuclear regulators on supervision and promotion.[26] This incident followed the prosecution of five senior engineers for the coverup of a serious loss of power and cooling incident at Kori Nuclear Power Plant, which was subsequently graded at INES level 2.[25][27] > In 2013, there was a scandal involving the use of counterfeit parts in nuclear plants and faked quality assurance certificates. In June 2013 Kori 2 and Shin Wolsong 1 were shut down, and Kori 1 and Shin Wolsong 2 ordered to remain offline, until safety-related control cabling with forged safety certificates is replaced.[28] Control cabling in the first APR-1400s under construction had to be replaced delaying construction by up to a year.[29] In October 2013 about 100 people were indicted for falsifying safety documents, including a former chief executive of Korea Hydro & Nuclear Power and a vice-president of Korea Electric Power Corporation.[30] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_South_Korea#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_South_Korea#H...
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  Turns out everything works properly, everything is operational. So much hanging at straws.