7 ms·

The Bay Area is a car sewer that could be teleported to the middle of Florida or North Dakota, and it would fit right in. It's a place you go for a couple years

by sh34r 3y ago

The Bay Area is a car sewer that could be teleported to the middle of Florida or North Dakota, and it would fit right in. It's a place you go for a couple years to make a bunch of money and have zero life, and you get out as soon as you possibly can. No culture. Just asphalt, office parks, pollution, run-down houses, and tent cities. I live in a town of 80,000 now, that feels more urban than San Jose. It's crazy. San Jose is not a real place. It's a million people all dispersed in a couple hundred square miles, seemingly at random, all in their little boxes on the side of a highway. No landmarks, no tall buildings, no walkable areas. It's not the middle of nowhere, it is nowhere. I'd say you could not design a "city" more poorly if you tried, but the rest of Silicon Valley sure proves me wrong there! Mountain View is even worse somehow! I'd say that they'd have better luck selling New Yorkers on their dystopian suburban hellscape if they weren't so obnoxiously positive about having paved paradise and put up a parking lot, but toxic positivity is kinda California's whole thing. They're not capable of putting themselves into our cynical headspace. You have to buy into all that woo-woo crap to survive out there. We're fundamentally incompatible with it. Won't find anywhere livable west of Chicago until you reach Tokyo...

ido 3y ago
Won't find anywhere livable west of Chicago until you reach Tokyo... I like Vancouver, although I've only ever visited rather than lived there.
- jakeinspace 3y ago
  It’s great if you move there with $1M in your pocket for a down payment. I think a somewhat boring city, but the access to nature is unparalleled (well, at least comparable to Denver or SLC).
xapata 3y ago
San José has a downtown that's not so terrible.
lisasays 3y ago
No landmarks, no tall buildings, no walkable areas. Absolutely not true - and shame on you if you've never explored the older neighborhoods downtown. However I definitely agree that overall it's a huge did of a city for its size (and most especially for the housing costs). And that you're saying applies to at least 90 percent of it by surface area. "Not a real place" absolutely nails it. Won't find anywhere livable west of Chicago until you reach Tokyo... Not true at all. Sounds like you've almost never been out there, except for a random business trip or two. The west coast isn't my ideal either, but it has plenty of perfectly livable places (if you can only somehow afford to settle down there).
- lisasays 3y ago
  "a huge dud", sorry.
rcpt 3y ago
Prop 13 working as intended.
CoffeeOnWrite 3y ago
There’s nothing wrong with San Jose, it’s not amazing but it’s definitely not nowhere. Look at Japantown, a central neighborhood with nice well maintained apartments and condo developments well integrated in the street grid. Five minutes walk to dozens of shops and restaurants. Good network of bike routes including protected bike lanes on stroads. 12 minute bike ride to BART, 15 minute bike ride to CalTrain. 20 minute walk to downtown (adequate nightlife, San Pedro Square is walkable, etc). 20 minute bike ride to The Alameda and Willow Glen gives variety of walkable business districts. Plenty of parks with tall trees within a 20 bike ride (eg. Guadalupe River, Overfelt Gardens). Excellent Asian food, pretty good food in general. Fairly frequent city buses and a light rail (candidly, though, I have never used them). That’s all^ for if you don’t have a car. Yea with a car you can access all the suburban stuff of which there is a lot (eg. shopping and restaurants at Westfield, The Pruneyard, eg. amazing hiking at New Almaden, Saratoga Quarry Park, eg. the vast amenities of nearby small cities). I recommend a car, it gives you access to more stuff, but is definitely not necessary, and even if you have one you don’t need to drive for everyday needs. My one complaint about San Jose is not enough of a base of everyday cultural events, specifically live music and stand up comedy. The only small music venue I am familiar with that has regular bands is Mama Kin’s. There is no good regular stand up comedy to my knowledge. I guess SF and Oakland suck that energy out of SJ, but that’s a real deficiency.
yieldcrv 3y ago
Hey now, Howard St in San Fransisco is a pretty great camp ground. Everything you need, with REI right around the corner you can try every tent with their infinite return policy, or just take the tent out the front door and not bother with a receipt. No permits necessary. Cant really think of anything similar in competitiveness.
labrador 3y ago
> San Jose is not a real place I'm writing from San Jose right now. I a few minutes away from downtown on my electric bike. It's a city like many others. I've lived in Orlando, San Diego, Seattle, Norfolk, Providence. I'm guessing you worked long hours in an office park and shuttled between a generic apartment and your generic office park. That's dystopian, I agree, but it's not enough experience of a city to judge it and you could have that experience in many other cities. I'm not really defending San Jose, I'm just saying it's no worse than most other cities. It lacks a waterfront. Cities with water fronts usually seem better.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  If it has more parking space than restaurant/bar terrasses and pedestrian only streets, this is not a city. This is just drawing streets in square and putting building and parking between them.
- sh34r 3y ago
  Providence and Seattle are far better examples of urbanism. I’d agree that it isn’t worse than Orlando. That’s not exactly high praise. Why spend NYC money to live somewhere that’s no better than Orlando?
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  As a San Jose resident, let me tell you, San Jose is just really big boring suburban town. It's not a city, no matter what the sign or the population is. There's no downtown. Like sure, there's a place called "downtown", but it's empty, even when SJSU is in session, and when it's not, it's even more of a ghost town. It's not even a good university district. Sure downtown Willow Glen is okay, but it's no different from Castro Street in Mountain View or University Ave in Palo Alto. Most of San Jose is just tract homes, office parks, strip malls, and parking lots. The worst part of San Jose is that there's absolutely zero culture here. Like none. Anything interesting in the Bay Area, it's in SF.
  - sh34r 3y ago
    A big part of that “downtown” everyone tries to hype up is a tent city these days, so… I’m not sure how that makes you feel better spending all that money to live in a place that makes Cleveland look downright exciting in comparison. At least SF and Oakland have some more excitement to go with the unbelievable cost of living and quality of life issues.
andbberger 3y ago
san jose isn't a real place but sf oakland and berkeley are
elefanten 3y ago
It's fun to observe the difference in framing and word choice here. NY "cynicism" vs CA "toxic positivity". As a Bay native, a younger version of me would've produced the mirror image to that rant along the lines of: "why are New Yorkers so angry and aggressive about everything? are they just miserable because they're all packed like sardines into that shabby concrete prison? why can't they just be chill like Californians?" No accounting for taste!
- bradleyjg 3y ago
  The first time you read an email that starts off with “hello friends” and continues on to talk about how “we made the tough decision to part with our valuable colleagues” you will understand what’s so grating about California nice. This kind of thing has unfortunately spread across the country, but California is the epicenter.
  - christophilus 3y ago
    Yep. I’d take, “You’re fiahd get the hell outta heah.” Over the Silicon Valley version any day.
    - intelthrow6 3y ago
      Damn, I miss the east coast. Rude, brash, and raw. Problems are solved with heated verbal sparring — then you both get it out of your system and move on with life. Everywhere else feels like I’m walking on eggshells or having to really restrain myself to get along.
  - sh34r 3y ago
    Ehh. It’s grating in California, but I think the epicenter of it is in Minnesota or Denver, actually.
- gen220 3y ago
  As somebody who’s lived half their life in each, both are exaggerations. Most New Yorkers aren’t cynical. Most Bay Area folks aren’t toxically positive. But it’s silly to imagine that the urban infrastructure doesn’t influence peoples’ psyches - they totally do!
drumhead 3y ago
I visited San Fransisco in the late 90s, it was a fantastic place, one of the best cities I went to in th US. What happened? What caused it to get so bad?
- closeparen 3y ago
  San Francisco ia a sideshow. America is a suburban country and the Bay Area is a suburban place. There are ten times as many people in the metro area as in the city. Only Salesforce and Uber are in the city; the rest of Big Tech is in the suburbs. The social and physical infrastructure is built for someone who has a family and works in an office to live in the suburbs. American postwar suburbia has a well-oiled machine for metabolizing growth, but it has to be fed with virgin land. The Bay Area long ago ran out. The growth kept on going, so it manifests in house prices and dysfunction instead.
  - milkshakes 3y ago
    airbnb, adobe and apple, are in sf. and that's just the As
    - resolutebat 3y ago
      Apple HQ is in Cupertino, Adobe HQ is in San Jose, and while Airbnb is still in SF, they've cut a lot of real estate there.
      - milkshakes 3y ago
        in fact, all three still retain substantial footprints in SF
  - dontupvoteme 3y ago
    The problem was the centralization of a certain brand of tech. If they had started making semiconductors in 1 or 2 other places in America this wouldn't have happened.
- malablaster 3y ago
aaronbrethorst 3y ago
This is the best description of suburban hell I’ve ever seen expressed on this site.
tomcam 3y ago
So wait what is this livable city of 80,000?
- htag 3y ago
  If you have an answer to this question don't spill the beans. Many cities livable at 80k will find themselves unlivable if they hit 160k in 15 years.
- sh34r 3y ago
  I have zero interest in putting where I’m at anymore on the map than it already is. Such places are vanishingly rare in the US, and incredibly common in Europe. It’s very frustrating. However, in the interest of shaking everyone off my trail, I will mention that there’s many affordable, walkable towns and cities outside Philly and Chicago that were built up 100 years along the commuter railroads. In the absence of zoning-related tyranny, transit oriented development happens naturally. Look for towns and cities that were built before 1945, before we paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    We already know about Bloomington
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by sh34r 3y ago

ido 3y ago

Won't find anywhere livable west of Chicago until you reach Tokyo... I like Vancouver, although I've only ever visited rather than lived there.

jakeinspace 3y ago
It’s great if you move there with $1M in your pocket for a down payment. I think a somewhat boring city, but the access to nature is unparalleled (well, at least comparable to Denver or SLC).

xapata 3y ago

San José has a downtown that's not so terrible.

lisasays 3y ago

No landmarks, no tall buildings, no walkable areas. Absolutely not true - and shame on you if you've never explored the older neighborhoods downtown. However I definitely agree that overall it's a huge did of a city for its size (and most especially for the housing costs). And that you're saying applies to at least 90 percent of it by surface area. "Not a real place" absolutely nails it. Won't find anywhere livable west of Chicago until you reach Tokyo... Not true at all. Sounds like you've almost never been out there, except for a random business trip or two. The west coast isn't my ideal either, but it has plenty of perfectly livable places (if you can only somehow afford to settle down there).

lisasays 3y ago
"a huge dud", sorry.

rcpt 3y ago

Prop 13 working as intended.

CoffeeOnWrite 3y ago

There’s nothing wrong with San Jose, it’s not amazing but it’s definitely not nowhere. Look at Japantown, a central neighborhood with nice well maintained apartments and condo developments well integrated in the street grid. Five minutes walk to dozens of shops and restaurants. Good network of bike routes including protected bike lanes on stroads. 12 minute bike ride to BART, 15 minute bike ride to CalTrain. 20 minute walk to downtown (adequate nightlife, San Pedro Square is walkable, etc). 20 minute bike ride to The Alameda and Willow Glen gives variety of walkable business districts. Plenty of parks with tall trees within a 20 bike ride (eg. Guadalupe River, Overfelt Gardens). Excellent Asian food, pretty good food in general. Fairly frequent city buses and a light rail (candidly, though, I have never used them). That’s all^ for if you don’t have a car. Yea with a car you can access all the suburban stuff of which there is a lot (eg. shopping and restaurants at Westfield, The Pruneyard, eg. amazing hiking at New Almaden, Saratoga Quarry Park, eg. the vast amenities of nearby small cities). I recommend a car, it gives you access to more stuff, but is definitely not necessary, and even if you have one you don’t need to drive for everyday needs. My one complaint about San Jose is not enough of a base of everyday cultural events, specifically live music and stand up comedy. The only small music venue I am familiar with that has regular bands is Mama Kin’s. There is no good regular stand up comedy to my knowledge. I guess SF and Oakland suck that energy out of SJ, but that’s a real deficiency.

yieldcrv 3y ago

Hey now, Howard St in San Fransisco is a pretty great camp ground. Everything you need, with REI right around the corner you can try every tent with their infinite return policy, or just take the tent out the front door and not bother with a receipt. No permits necessary. Cant really think of anything similar in competitiveness.

labrador 3y ago

> San Jose is not a real place I'm writing from San Jose right now. I a few minutes away from downtown on my electric bike. It's a city like many others. I've lived in Orlando, San Diego, Seattle, Norfolk, Providence. I'm guessing you worked long hours in an office park and shuttled between a generic apartment and your generic office park. That's dystopian, I agree, but it's not enough experience of a city to judge it and you could have that experience in many other cities. I'm not really defending San Jose, I'm just saying it's no worse than most other cities. It lacks a waterfront. Cities with water fronts usually seem better.

prmoustache 3y ago
If it has more parking space than restaurant/bar terrasses and pedestrian only streets, this is not a city. This is just drawing streets in square and putting building and parking between them.
sh34r 3y ago
Providence and Seattle are far better examples of urbanism. I’d agree that it isn’t worse than Orlando. That’s not exactly high praise. Why spend NYC money to live somewhere that’s no better than Orlando?
jonathankoren 3y ago
As a San Jose resident, let me tell you, San Jose is just really big boring suburban town. It's not a city, no matter what the sign or the population is. There's no downtown. Like sure, there's a place called "downtown", but it's empty, even when SJSU is in session, and when it's not, it's even more of a ghost town. It's not even a good university district. Sure downtown Willow Glen is okay, but it's no different from Castro Street in Mountain View or University Ave in Palo Alto. Most of San Jose is just tract homes, office parks, strip malls, and parking lots. The worst part of San Jose is that there's absolutely zero culture here. Like none. Anything interesting in the Bay Area, it's in SF.
- sh34r 3y ago
  A big part of that “downtown” everyone tries to hype up is a tent city these days, so… I’m not sure how that makes you feel better spending all that money to live in a place that makes Cleveland look downright exciting in comparison. At least SF and Oakland have some more excitement to go with the unbelievable cost of living and quality of life issues.

andbberger 3y ago

san jose isn't a real place but sf oakland and berkeley are

elefanten 3y ago

It's fun to observe the difference in framing and word choice here. NY "cynicism" vs CA "toxic positivity". As a Bay native, a younger version of me would've produced the mirror image to that rant along the lines of: "why are New Yorkers so angry and aggressive about everything? are they just miserable because they're all packed like sardines into that shabby concrete prison? why can't they just be chill like Californians?" No accounting for taste!

bradleyjg 3y ago
The first time you read an email that starts off with “hello friends” and continues on to talk about how “we made the tough decision to part with our valuable colleagues” you will understand what’s so grating about California nice. This kind of thing has unfortunately spread across the country, but California is the epicenter.
- christophilus 3y ago
  Yep. I’d take, “You’re fiahd get the hell outta heah.” Over the Silicon Valley version any day.
  - intelthrow6 3y ago
    Damn, I miss the east coast. Rude, brash, and raw. Problems are solved with heated verbal sparring — then you both get it out of your system and move on with life. Everywhere else feels like I’m walking on eggshells or having to really restrain myself to get along.
- sh34r 3y ago
  Ehh. It’s grating in California, but I think the epicenter of it is in Minnesota or Denver, actually.
gen220 3y ago
As somebody who’s lived half their life in each, both are exaggerations. Most New Yorkers aren’t cynical. Most Bay Area folks aren’t toxically positive. But it’s silly to imagine that the urban infrastructure doesn’t influence peoples’ psyches - they totally do!

drumhead 3y ago

I visited San Fransisco in the late 90s, it was a fantastic place, one of the best cities I went to in th US. What happened? What caused it to get so bad?

closeparen 3y ago
San Francisco ia a sideshow. America is a suburban country and the Bay Area is a suburban place. There are ten times as many people in the metro area as in the city. Only Salesforce and Uber are in the city; the rest of Big Tech is in the suburbs. The social and physical infrastructure is built for someone who has a family and works in an office to live in the suburbs. American postwar suburbia has a well-oiled machine for metabolizing growth, but it has to be fed with virgin land. The Bay Area long ago ran out. The growth kept on going, so it manifests in house prices and dysfunction instead.
- milkshakes 3y ago
  airbnb, adobe and apple, are in sf. and that's just the As
  - resolutebat 3y ago
    Apple HQ is in Cupertino, Adobe HQ is in San Jose, and while Airbnb is still in SF, they've cut a lot of real estate there.
    - milkshakes 3y ago
      in fact, all three still retain substantial footprints in SF
- dontupvoteme 3y ago
  The problem was the centralization of a certain brand of tech. If they had started making semiconductors in 1 or 2 other places in America this wouldn't have happened.
malablaster 3y ago

aaronbrethorst 3y ago

This is the best description of suburban hell I’ve ever seen expressed on this site.

tomcam 3y ago

So wait what is this livable city of 80,000?

htag 3y ago
If you have an answer to this question don't spill the beans. Many cities livable at 80k will find themselves unlivable if they hit 160k in 15 years.
sh34r 3y ago
I have zero interest in putting where I’m at anymore on the map than it already is. Such places are vanishingly rare in the US, and incredibly common in Europe. It’s very frustrating. However, in the interest of shaking everyone off my trail, I will mention that there’s many affordable, walkable towns and cities outside Philly and Chicago that were built up 100 years along the commuter railroads. In the absence of zoning-related tyranny, transit oriented development happens naturally. Look for towns and cities that were built before 1945, before we paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  We already know about Bloomington

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]