5 ms·

When I was laid off by Shopify last month, it was almost done perfectly. The day started. Everyone got an email saying what was happening and whether or not th

by mabbo 3y ago

When I was laid off by Shopify last month, it was almost done perfectly. The day started. Everyone got an email saying what was happening and whether or not they were impacted. I was. I was given access to slack to say farewells for a few hours. I had a quick meeting with my senior manager. Then all access was cut and my personal email got all the needed details on what's next. It sucked, but it was pretty humane. But... There was a leak two days before that it was coming. The dread of knowing you might be laid off is worse than being laid off. And everyone had it for 48 hours. It was brutal and the company ground to a halt. I'm not mad at the leaker. They probably felt it was better that people know. But I don't think they were right. I don't think telling investors about the layoff before the people being laid off is right. But I also don't think dragging it out for many days or weeks is healthy for anyone.

omginternets 3y ago
How has the job market been? And out of curiosity, we’re you an engineer?
emodendroket 3y ago
I have not loved my work’s strategy of announcing a layoff in the coming months.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Why? At least at a personal level, assuming it wasn't already obvious to you, it seems as if it could serve as a kick in the pants to start looking around. A statement that it's going to happen doesn't change the reality. From a company perspective, it possibly makes less sense because you might prefer the oblivious folks to stay oblivious. But, personally, I'd prefer clear signals especially if it's not already blindingly obvious.
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    It's the opposite of a clear signal and it's not like "looking around" necessarily means more stability in sector-wide downturns. The cynic in me suspects the idea is to scare people into working harder.
duncan-donuts 3y ago
The company I work for had layoffs recently and we were notified nearly 3 weeks in advance. I think they meant well but it was awful. Maybe there’s some science behind the transparency or something but it was pretty terrible to me. I would prefer that the day we’re told layoffs will happen that they do the layoffs.
- ghaff 3y ago
  I don't necessarily disagree. On the other hand, I have been in situations (both affected and not) where pretty much everyone with even the most minimal degree of self-awareness knew a hammer was coming in the relatively near future whether anyone had said anything or not.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    The company where I had my first "proper" job got bought by some international corporation half a year after I joined. Not long after I noticed me and my coworkers had nothing to do, just sitting in the office twiddling thumbs all day rather than visiting clients doing work. Since I had no point of reference, with this being my first job, I asked a coworker if this was normal. He said no, all his friends with similar jobs at other companies were working like crazy. That's when I knew this wouldn't last long. A few months later the company got sold for scraps to our largest competitor. I learned then that it's better with a bit too much to do, rather than too little.
d4mi3n 3y ago
Also laid off by Shopify. Agree that leaking was not the right call but I would have to vigorously disagree about the “well done” lay-off bit. Issues I observed included: * A complete lack of resourcing for the operational teams conducting the layoffs (talent, legal, etc) * People receiving demands to sign their severance agreements within a few days. * Severance agreements that were outright illegal in the regions of the employees there were laying off * Severance agreements with wildly incorrect numbers * Severance agreements that Shopify refused to honor after signing (to the point that it’s triggered a class action in Ontario) * Poorly coordinated equipment return. Many of us have not received return boxes for our laptops over a month after the layoff. Some have received 3 or more boxes despite having no additional equipment. * Questionably times layoff of all personnel in Berlin shortly before a works council was established. This has also resulted in an investigation by the local authorities. Now I’ve been through my share of layoffs—they always suck and it’s reasonable to expect large ones will have problems. But this mantra that Shopify has done a good job of the May 2023 layoff or the previous layoff last year is a fallacy being pushed by an executive board at Shopify that has become increasing unaccountable for poor decisions and exercised even worse leadership.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  Unless there’s a security concern they should just let the employee keep the machine. The company I work for that did layoffs this year did that. It’s just easier for everyone involved and I imagine makes the layoff slightly less shitty for the employee.
  - tedivm 3y ago
    When Kenna was bought by Cisco I never got a box to ship my laptop back (despite asking repeatedly). Instead the Cisco team bricked all of the laptops remotely. I had only worked there for two months, so this brand new rather expensive laptop was turned into a paperweight for no reason other than to spite as far as I can tell. I still have it in my closet in case they decide we need to return it still (despite it being two years later). Anyways, if Cisco buys a company you're working for my advice is to immediately start looking for a new job.
kevinmchugh 3y ago
It's worth considering that the desire to pre arrange those outcome emails may be why a leaker ended up in the circle of trust. Messy layoffs may involve fewer people aware before the public announcement.
censless 3y ago
[flagged]
- fragmede 3y ago
  Sometimes, people develop relationships of all different kinds with the people they work with. Terminating someone's access at 4am instead so they don't get a chance to say goodbye to those people and those attachments is, well, I wouldn't say inhumane, but it's disrespectful to those connections that have been formed. Giving people the chance to say goodbye and commit their in-progress work and save their personalized shell scripts to their personal devices, not to mention personal effects at their desk; little niceties like that, were lacking in layoffs elsewhere.
ghusto 3y ago
It read like a righteous indignation piece, without the benefit of being right, just to jump on the "aren't companies terrible?" bandwagon.

by mabbo 3y ago

omginternets 3y ago

How has the job market been? And out of curiosity, we’re you an engineer?

emodendroket 3y ago

I have not loved my work’s strategy of announcing a layoff in the coming months.

ghaff 3y ago
Why? At least at a personal level, assuming it wasn't already obvious to you, it seems as if it could serve as a kick in the pants to start looking around. A statement that it's going to happen doesn't change the reality. From a company perspective, it possibly makes less sense because you might prefer the oblivious folks to stay oblivious. But, personally, I'd prefer clear signals especially if it's not already blindingly obvious.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  It's the opposite of a clear signal and it's not like "looking around" necessarily means more stability in sector-wide downturns. The cynic in me suspects the idea is to scare people into working harder.

duncan-donuts 3y ago

The company I work for had layoffs recently and we were notified nearly 3 weeks in advance. I think they meant well but it was awful. Maybe there’s some science behind the transparency or something but it was pretty terrible to me. I would prefer that the day we’re told layoffs will happen that they do the layoffs.

ghaff 3y ago
I don't necessarily disagree. On the other hand, I have been in situations (both affected and not) where pretty much everyone with even the most minimal degree of self-awareness knew a hammer was coming in the relatively near future whether anyone had said anything or not.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  The company where I had my first "proper" job got bought by some international corporation half a year after I joined. Not long after I noticed me and my coworkers had nothing to do, just sitting in the office twiddling thumbs all day rather than visiting clients doing work. Since I had no point of reference, with this being my first job, I asked a coworker if this was normal. He said no, all his friends with similar jobs at other companies were working like crazy. That's when I knew this wouldn't last long. A few months later the company got sold for scraps to our largest competitor. I learned then that it's better with a bit too much to do, rather than too little.

d4mi3n 3y ago

Also laid off by Shopify. Agree that leaking was not the right call but I would have to vigorously disagree about the “well done” lay-off bit. Issues I observed included: * A complete lack of resourcing for the operational teams conducting the layoffs (talent, legal, etc) * People receiving demands to sign their severance agreements within a few days. * Severance agreements that were outright illegal in the regions of the employees there were laying off * Severance agreements with wildly incorrect numbers * Severance agreements that Shopify refused to honor after signing (to the point that it’s triggered a class action in Ontario) * Poorly coordinated equipment return. Many of us have not received return boxes for our laptops over a month after the layoff. Some have received 3 or more boxes despite having no additional equipment. * Questionably times layoff of all personnel in Berlin shortly before a works council was established. This has also resulted in an investigation by the local authorities. Now I’ve been through my share of layoffs—they always suck and it’s reasonable to expect large ones will have problems. But this mantra that Shopify has done a good job of the May 2023 layoff or the previous layoff last year is a fallacy being pushed by an executive board at Shopify that has become increasing unaccountable for poor decisions and exercised even worse leadership.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
Unless there’s a security concern they should just let the employee keep the machine. The company I work for that did layoffs this year did that. It’s just easier for everyone involved and I imagine makes the layoff slightly less shitty for the employee.
- tedivm 3y ago
  When Kenna was bought by Cisco I never got a box to ship my laptop back (despite asking repeatedly). Instead the Cisco team bricked all of the laptops remotely. I had only worked there for two months, so this brand new rather expensive laptop was turned into a paperweight for no reason other than to spite as far as I can tell. I still have it in my closet in case they decide we need to return it still (despite it being two years later). Anyways, if Cisco buys a company you're working for my advice is to immediately start looking for a new job.

kevinmchugh 3y ago

It's worth considering that the desire to pre arrange those outcome emails may be why a leaker ended up in the circle of trust. Messy layoffs may involve fewer people aware before the public announcement.

censless 3y ago

[flagged]

fragmede 3y ago
Sometimes, people develop relationships of all different kinds with the people they work with. Terminating someone's access at 4am instead so they don't get a chance to say goodbye to those people and those attachments is, well, I wouldn't say inhumane, but it's disrespectful to those connections that have been formed. Giving people the chance to say goodbye and commit their in-progress work and save their personalized shell scripts to their personal devices, not to mention personal effects at their desk; little niceties like that, were lacking in layoffs elsewhere.

ghusto 3y ago

It read like a righteous indignation piece, without the benefit of being right, just to jump on the "aren't companies terrible?" bandwagon.