4 ms·

Written from the ground perspective of general web consumption, but those who moved to higher ground looking for better places to surf the web with higher quali

Written from the ground perspective of general web consumption, but those who moved to higher ground looking for better places to surf the web with higher quality signal / data, saw this problem coming a long while ago. The web moved from being something that served its users, to one that needed to censor the signal / information some people were looking for, due to groupthink (eg politics,) due to copyright or other concerns. First we lost the fantastic web string search engines that could really pinpoint topics, than regular search engines depowered slowly in spits and spats in the decade that followed. Then a few years ago the tables turned and suddenly search engines figured they didn't really need to compete very hard ... here we are today, no more 1000 or 2000 results if the user wants to look over that list, it seems the main crawler search engines have agreed to serve a handful of results instead, fuck the people, what are they going to do about it ... I have long toyed (since 2011) to address this very BS, with the idea of creating a new simple web format, but token fee for access, the likes of the music and movie industry reps need to pay a $$$$$$$$$ fee to have a limited account, BS search engines are banned outright (along with LLM,) various site types declared by default (ie banner, or a redirector) as well as each page having a token to sum up what it is, eg not spam or spam, - however I've long recognised everything my poor head has been through the last couple of decades I'm frankly not equipped to do it. Oh well, I guess at some point someone will strike on the same type of idea.

rektide 3y ago
> one that needed to censor the signal / information some people were looking for, due to groupthink (eg politics,) due to copyright or other concerns At the moment, I don't feel like these factors had even a bit part in shaping where we are or what happened. I don't think the web has it any worse than anywhere else in the world generally, and I think it's much better than most places & the rest of computing, which tends to have bigger guard rails as it massifies than the web. There's been a lot of bad incentives & profit motive slowly eroding conditions, I yeah. Massified systems & consolidation have changed the power dynamic, & stasis/stagnation has somewhat set in.
- anenefan 3y ago
  I'm not sure what you want out of the web then, or what your experience of it is. I'm not referring to social media and associated services at all to be clear, the majority of these social media sites I've encountered the last dozen years hadn't searched well (for something specific) since many, initially or a couple years in, either by agreement with search engines or via constructed means to wall off the bulk of user content ie search for a quote text and search engines bounced around it, even if the term was highly unusual. As for impact, very much so, just many wouldn't have had a reason to have run into or know what obstacles are on the field. I have done a lot of research on behalf of other people, a lot is plain and simple, some of it was iffy but from my point of view, legitimate. (IMO you only really own something if you can fix it, otherwise you're just paying renting fees albeit under a different name.) It has meant for much of my net use the last two decades, has been using search engines for a wide range of topics, quite the journey sometimes - frankly I've been surprised how much effort some companies put into burying information (even as far as creating a honeypot affair (site/account) to just bush any one seeking a bit of help) - a lot of the time it's something that might otherwise stop some poor sod from becoming a sucker of an overpriced fix. This action prompts spammers (some are direct, some are very subtle and involve themselves in forums) who try to capitalise on a market that's had the information contained by offering easy results to find - generally illegal downloads which further waters down legitimate search results. At some point there's a huge number of results and yes it further swamps search engines that are genuinely trying to deliver. Overall this now means I've not offered to do so much researching the last few years due to the very limited pool most search engines want to swim in.
  - rektide 3y ago
    Apps not built to be searchable are 100% of native apps, so any web apps that are searchable are a win, as far as internetworking goes. Regardless, this feels both conspiratorially couched (when simple bland Occam's Razors issues of these being necessary massification as a couple billion people all login). These complex issues don't feel like censorship today. The information has a harder time competing to get out but if you have a network of people who listen to you you will have fairly unimpeded channels in almost every place on earth. You're also standing on authority with 'trust me' & I don't have any known reasons I would trust you.

rektide 3y ago

> one that needed to censor the signal / information some people were looking for, due to groupthink (eg politics,) due to copyright or other concerns At the moment, I don't feel like these factors had even a bit part in shaping where we are or what happened. I don't think the web has it any worse than anywhere else in the world generally, and I think it's much better than most places & the rest of computing, which tends to have bigger guard rails as it massifies than the web. There's been a lot of bad incentives & profit motive slowly eroding conditions, I yeah. Massified systems & consolidation have changed the power dynamic, & stasis/stagnation has somewhat set in.

anenefan 3y ago
I'm not sure what you want out of the web then, or what your experience of it is. I'm not referring to social media and associated services at all to be clear, the majority of these social media sites I've encountered the last dozen years hadn't searched well (for something specific) since many, initially or a couple years in, either by agreement with search engines or via constructed means to wall off the bulk of user content ie search for a quote text and search engines bounced around it, even if the term was highly unusual. As for impact, very much so, just many wouldn't have had a reason to have run into or know what obstacles are on the field. I have done a lot of research on behalf of other people, a lot is plain and simple, some of it was iffy but from my point of view, legitimate. (IMO you only really own something if you can fix it, otherwise you're just paying renting fees albeit under a different name.) It has meant for much of my net use the last two decades, has been using search engines for a wide range of topics, quite the journey sometimes - frankly I've been surprised how much effort some companies put into burying information (even as far as creating a honeypot affair (site/account) to just bush any one seeking a bit of help) - a lot of the time it's something that might otherwise stop some poor sod from becoming a sucker of an overpriced fix. This action prompts spammers (some are direct, some are very subtle and involve themselves in forums) who try to capitalise on a market that's had the information contained by offering easy results to find - generally illegal downloads which further waters down legitimate search results. At some point there's a huge number of results and yes it further swamps search engines that are genuinely trying to deliver. Overall this now means I've not offered to do so much researching the last few years due to the very limited pool most search engines want to swim in.
- rektide 3y ago
  Apps not built to be searchable are 100% of native apps, so any web apps that are searchable are a win, as far as internetworking goes. Regardless, this feels both conspiratorially couched (when simple bland Occam's Razors issues of these being necessary massification as a couple billion people all login). These complex issues don't feel like censorship today. The information has a harder time competing to get out but if you have a network of people who listen to you you will have fairly unimpeded channels in almost every place on earth. You're also standing on authority with 'trust me' & I don't have any known reasons I would trust you.