3 ms·

Buying a Tesla Model 3 with a $7,500 tax credit is tempting, except you're still paying over $40,240, plus $1,390 destination fee, plus $250 "order fee" at $41,

Buying a Tesla Model 3 with a $7,500 tax credit is tempting, except you're still paying over $40,240, plus $1,390 destination fee, plus $250 "order fee" at $41,880 before tax and registration(!!) for a compact executive car to later receive a deduction on your tax liability. Then you need a wall connector, and you'll of course want a mobile connector, and you'll need to call your electrician if you have one, or else you'll need to search for one and have the wall connector install at an undetermined market rate. Don't forget insurance; you'll want full coverage. Oh and after that, that's all just the base model, without Tesla screwing you for another $6,000 for Enhanced Autopilot, or $15,000 for Full Self-Driving Capability. You're still spending all of that money. It's not like these credits immediately apply at the point of purchase. Just buy a Toyota Corolla. It too will steer itself on streets and highways, and Toyota doesn't hype their self-driving by calling it autopilot.

cmclaughlin 3y ago
> Don't forget insurance; you'll want full coverage. Most people in the US buy cars with loans and don't have a choice about insurance. So I don't see any point involving that in the comparison. > Then you need a wall connector, and you'll of course want a mobile connector, and you'll need to call your electrician I don't yet have an EV, but I expect to buy one soon... so I've been thinking about this scenario. * While not optimal, charging from a common 120v will likely get you 30-40m of range. That would be fine for me since I don't drive much. * For those of us with electric clothes dryers in their garage with 240v power - it's possible to use an adapter to plug directly in or for $200-300 purchase a smart splitter device that disables the dryer and routes power to the car. Personally I like the idea of not needing to wait for my car to warm up - not everyone does this, but I'm into cars and try to take good care of mine. And I like the idea of not needing to waste time going to gas stations - for the foreseeable future I will have an ICE car for very long trips and towing, but expect to have an EV and almost only charge at home. Very rarely would I ever need to use public charging facilities. One thing I don't like about EVs is the trend toward paying extra for self-driving features. I'm very much against idea of SaaS/monthly fees for that.
- fzzzy 3y ago
  What makes you think warming up a car is good for a newer car?
  - cmclaughlin 3y ago
    It warms the oil. My BMW tells me when it’s OK to start driving. Note this does not warm the transmission fluid. So it’s still good to take it easy the first few minutes of driving.
    - fzzzy 3y ago
      Right, but why do you think this is useful for a modern car.
- attentive 3y ago
  > Most people in the US buy cars with loans and don't have a choice about insurance. So I don't see any point involving that in the comparison. often times this cost multiples of gas car > I don't yet have an EV, but I expect to buy one soon... so I've been thinking about this scenario. definitely check your future insurance rate to avoid surprises
nine_k 3y ago
I wonder how many solar panels does one need to stop depending on the grid, and on the fuel. The car would have to be parked next to the installation for a significant portion of the day though.
- kybernetikos 3y ago
  Charging a long range electric car dwarfs normal home usage - maybe equivalent to a weeks worth of home usage. To cover it practically you'd need a really large solar installation.
natch 3y ago
On just one point, you probably don’t need a wall connector. An electrical outlet will do. Unless that’s what you meant with the scary wording? Obviously 220/240 is faster than 110/120, but whatever you have, adding a fancy wall connector won’t make it faster. A mobile connector cable 25 feet long and with some high tech circuit protection in it runs $200, and is all you need. No installation. It comes with common plug adapters or if you have a really strange wall outlet you can buy other adapters as a set or on an individual basis. Only outlet in reach already occupied by something you absolutely can’t unplug? Well then gosh you do have something to figure out. Maybe you do need an electrician in that case. If your 220 is already used by a dryer, don’t overlook nearby 110s. In short it’s worth mentioning that not everyone is going to need a wall connector installation.
- kybernetikos 3y ago
  A proper wall box charges twice as fast as a plug in adapter. For cars with larger range this is likely to be a pretty significant difference (requires a full day to charge vs can charge overnight).
  - natch 3y ago
    Not true. It all depends on the circuit that backs the plug in adapter or “proper” wall box. A proper slow wall connector or box as you call it can be slower than a high amperage plug. Just slapping a box around the plug won’t make it faster. And if you are going to do upgrades for installing a box, you can just as easily do the same upgrades to the same power for the same charging speed at less cost by simply upgrading the circuit and the plug (not that even that is needed usually). Adding the box after this does not make it faster. Just aesthetically more impressive looking.
    - kybernetikos 3y ago
      Perhaps it depends on region or perhaps you're referring to driving plugs outside of standard? Where I am a normal plug can drive around 3kw while a dedicated circuit drives about 7kw (both for single phase, more for 3 phase). When we had the dedicated circuit fitted it needed to sense the load from the rest of the house so it could dynamically back off to stay within our overall safe limits. Obviously I'm not saying that putting a box around something magically makes it better, I'm saying that something that plugs into a standard domestic plug (which is what I thought you were taking about) will not supply power at the same rate and that difference can be significant for charging times.

cmclaughlin 3y ago

> Don't forget insurance; you'll want full coverage. Most people in the US buy cars with loans and don't have a choice about insurance. So I don't see any point involving that in the comparison. > Then you need a wall connector, and you'll of course want a mobile connector, and you'll need to call your electrician I don't yet have an EV, but I expect to buy one soon... so I've been thinking about this scenario. * While not optimal, charging from a common 120v will likely get you 30-40m of range. That would be fine for me since I don't drive much. * For those of us with electric clothes dryers in their garage with 240v power - it's possible to use an adapter to plug directly in or for $200-300 purchase a smart splitter device that disables the dryer and routes power to the car. Personally I like the idea of not needing to wait for my car to warm up - not everyone does this, but I'm into cars and try to take good care of mine. And I like the idea of not needing to waste time going to gas stations - for the foreseeable future I will have an ICE car for very long trips and towing, but expect to have an EV and almost only charge at home. Very rarely would I ever need to use public charging facilities. One thing I don't like about EVs is the trend toward paying extra for self-driving features. I'm very much against idea of SaaS/monthly fees for that.

fzzzy 3y ago
What makes you think warming up a car is good for a newer car?
- cmclaughlin 3y ago
  It warms the oil. My BMW tells me when it’s OK to start driving. Note this does not warm the transmission fluid. So it’s still good to take it easy the first few minutes of driving.
  - fzzzy 3y ago
    Right, but why do you think this is useful for a modern car.
attentive 3y ago
> Most people in the US buy cars with loans and don't have a choice about insurance. So I don't see any point involving that in the comparison. often times this cost multiples of gas car > I don't yet have an EV, but I expect to buy one soon... so I've been thinking about this scenario. definitely check your future insurance rate to avoid surprises

nine_k 3y ago

I wonder how many solar panels does one need to stop depending on the grid, and on the fuel. The car would have to be parked next to the installation for a significant portion of the day though.

kybernetikos 3y ago
Charging a long range electric car dwarfs normal home usage - maybe equivalent to a weeks worth of home usage. To cover it practically you'd need a really large solar installation.

natch 3y ago

On just one point, you probably don’t need a wall connector. An electrical outlet will do. Unless that’s what you meant with the scary wording? Obviously 220/240 is faster than 110/120, but whatever you have, adding a fancy wall connector won’t make it faster. A mobile connector cable 25 feet long and with some high tech circuit protection in it runs $200, and is all you need. No installation. It comes with common plug adapters or if you have a really strange wall outlet you can buy other adapters as a set or on an individual basis. Only outlet in reach already occupied by something you absolutely can’t unplug? Well then gosh you do have something to figure out. Maybe you do need an electrician in that case. If your 220 is already used by a dryer, don’t overlook nearby 110s. In short it’s worth mentioning that not everyone is going to need a wall connector installation.

kybernetikos 3y ago
A proper wall box charges twice as fast as a plug in adapter. For cars with larger range this is likely to be a pretty significant difference (requires a full day to charge vs can charge overnight).
- natch 3y ago
  Not true. It all depends on the circuit that backs the plug in adapter or “proper” wall box. A proper slow wall connector or box as you call it can be slower than a high amperage plug. Just slapping a box around the plug won’t make it faster. And if you are going to do upgrades for installing a box, you can just as easily do the same upgrades to the same power for the same charging speed at less cost by simply upgrading the circuit and the plug (not that even that is needed usually). Adding the box after this does not make it faster. Just aesthetically more impressive looking.
  - kybernetikos 3y ago
    Perhaps it depends on region or perhaps you're referring to driving plugs outside of standard? Where I am a normal plug can drive around 3kw while a dedicated circuit drives about 7kw (both for single phase, more for 3 phase). When we had the dedicated circuit fitted it needed to sense the load from the rest of the house so it could dynamically back off to stay within our overall safe limits. Obviously I'm not saying that putting a box around something magically makes it better, I'm saying that something that plugs into a standard domestic plug (which is what I thought you were taking about) will not supply power at the same rate and that difference can be significant for charging times.