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Just use an LED that produces the same color. They 100% exist. I agree that incandescent is better than cold LED. A little shopping and consumer research will

Just use an LED that produces the same color. They 100% exist. I agree that incandescent is better than cold LED. A little shopping and consumer research will 100% find you exactly the LED you want.

_yb2s 3y ago
It doesn't look or feel the same to me. Maybe something to do with CRI (I don't really understand that). I am not switching to LEDs... It would be wasteful to throw away something that works great and replace it with something new that doesn't work as well. I like incandescent, and my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W.
- badcppdev 3y ago
  "This is why I resent the laws banning incandescent lights." and "my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W." You resent the laws although they barely affect you. And it's time for me to take a break from discussion threads.
- comfypotato 3y ago
  > It doesn't look or feel the same to me. I used to be in this camp before branching out and trying some different LEDs. Unless it is literally the glowing filament that you like looking at, which is reasonable, you can definitely find a bulb that looks and feels the same. That was my point in repeating myself saying that it 100% exists. If you’re not in a place to financially experiment with a few bulbs that’s different. Stating that LEDs can’t produce the color you want is wrong. I would go as far as to say that you can find an LED that produces a color you prefer over incandescent.
  - twoodfin 3y ago
    What’s your recommendation for a quality sub-2700K bulb?
    - comfypotato 3y ago
      I settled on an adjustable-temperature/brightness standing lamp. I don’t know the model, sorry. Being able to change the color/brightness on a spectrum is very nice. Planning to buy some e26 bulbs that connect to Apple’s home automation. It’ll be the same process of buying all the popular models on Amazon that have fully adjustable color/brightness and settling on what I like best.
  - _yb2s 3y ago
    It just seems like a solution looking for a problem... incandescent lights are exactly the perfect solution for my use case, I am completely happy with them. The whole problem LED bulb mandates are trying to solve is mostly a problem of unnecessary and excessive lighting which is causing tons of light pollution, interrupting peoples circadian rhythm, etc. If people used a very dim light near their body just between sunset and sleep it wouldn't matter much how efficient it is. Brightly lighting up our cities and houses is totally unnecessary and terrible for us, and terrible for the planet regardless of how efficient and cheap we can make it. It lowers quality of life for us, and other animals affected by the light pollution. I would have no problem affording LED lights I don't want, but cannot afford to move someplace with enough land to escape the neighbors light pollution from their cheap LEDs... which makes it harder to sleep, impossible to enjoy the stars, etc.
    - comfypotato 3y ago
      Noises of crotchety old fart grumbling in the distance
    - santoshalper 3y ago
      No, the problem they are trying to solve is not light pollution, it is that incandescent bulbs use several times as much electricity as LEDs.
      - _yb2s 3y ago
        Making it more efficient just means people will think even less before brightly lighting things up all night long that either don’t need lighting at all or don’t need it so bright. LEDs are so efficient and cheap that the result is massive light pollution. The solution to energy waste is to make light dimmer and more localized.
        thehappypm 3y ago
        That would be the case if LEDs weren’t so, so much more efficient. Like 5x more efficient, easily.
- Schroedingersat 3y ago
  Rough service incandescent bulbs are exempt and will last decades driven at a quarter power. Sure it's a special order, but it's a special case.
alfalfasprout 3y ago
They don't. Even the highest end ultra high CRI bulbs don't have the same CRI and dUV as a good halogen bulb for example.
- comfypotato 3y ago
  I’m more familiar with the advancements in CRI in recent years than dUV (this is the first I’be heard of that) but LEDs can now be purchased with equivalent CRI. The context of this discussion is incandescent color/perception/experience.
  - alfalfasprout 3y ago
    My point is that CRI alone isn't sufficient. Nor is CCT (correlated color temperature). In practice, two bulbs with the same CRI and color temperature can have drastically different tints. It all boils down to how these measurements work. In practice, the vast vast majority of LED bulbs do not even remotely come close to the color reproduction of halogen. Not to mention the flicker response to 60hz wall power. There are a handful of companies that produce extremely color accurate LEDs but they're expensive and have limited lifespan. Check out this resource for more info: https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference-between-cri-and-ra/ https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference... https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie-1931-xy-coordinates https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie...
    - comfypotato 3y ago
      Well OK, I was more speaking in the context of a reading lamp. And I wanted more to point out that an LED lamp with smooth color and brightness spectrums allows for you to find a better sweet spot for comfortably reading at night.
    - navi0 3y ago
      I can’t recommend Waveform Lighting’s 95 CRI products highly enough! The wonderful warmth of incandescent (depending on your color temp prefs) with no wasted IR energy in the form of heat. What’s funny is that your mind will perceive it as hot because we’ve been conditioned to expect it from light at that color temp. Reasonable price, too, but more expensive than bulbs from the big box store. For something that lasts 10-18 years, it’s worth it to me.
BanazirGalbasi 3y ago
There was an article posted here earlier this year[1] that pointed out the flaws in modern LEDs, and just how hard it is to get one that matches the color you want. It's a pretty long read, but the author does a really good job of showing just how much trouble he has getting comfortable lighting that actually lasts a long time. [1] https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investigation.html https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investi...
- comfypotato 3y ago
  As I mentioned in some other comments, I settled on a lamp with a fully adjustable color and brightness. It’s lots of diodes, and the net effect is very nice. In other words, I’m agreeing with your article that the fixed bulbs typically don’t hit the mark.
  - laverya 3y ago
    Are you sure that your "fully adjustable" bulb is giving you the spectrum you think it is? Syonyk's posted a few RGB bulb reviews recently, and they tend to have a lot more blue light than you'd think. And if you use the RGB functions, they tend to get REALLY spiky instead of having a smooth emissions curve. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review... + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bulb/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bul...
    - dmonitor 3y ago
      I’m lighting a room, not a science experiment
      - brookst 3y ago
        If you're not lighting a science experiment, you are the science experiment. (or something like that)
Obscurity4340 3y ago
I truly cannot distinguish between real incandescent light and the "warm white" implemented on the Phillips Hue bulbs.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  Visually, no, probably not. But in terms of your body's melatonin production and sleep, the Philips smart bulbs can get very peaky in terms of blue, in the range that matters. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ They're not obvious visually when they switch from the white emitter, which has "some blue" to the RGB emitters, which have "lots of blue" as you head out in the red/orange spectrum, but your body's "blue sensors" certainly notice. Unfortunately, our visual system isn't sensitive to the same things our melatonin inhibiting system is sensitive to, so without a spectrometer, you can't really tell what you're seeing.

Just use an LED that produces the same color. They 100% exist. I agree that incandescent is better than cold LED. A little shopping and consumer research will 100% find you exactly the LED you want.

_yb2s 3y ago

It doesn't look or feel the same to me. Maybe something to do with CRI (I don't really understand that). I am not switching to LEDs... It would be wasteful to throw away something that works great and replace it with something new that doesn't work as well. I like incandescent, and my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W.

badcppdev 3y ago
"This is why I resent the laws banning incandescent lights." and "my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W." You resent the laws although they barely affect you. And it's time for me to take a break from discussion threads.
comfypotato 3y ago
> It doesn't look or feel the same to me. I used to be in this camp before branching out and trying some different LEDs. Unless it is literally the glowing filament that you like looking at, which is reasonable, you can definitely find a bulb that looks and feels the same. That was my point in repeating myself saying that it 100% exists. If you’re not in a place to financially experiment with a few bulbs that’s different. Stating that LEDs can’t produce the color you want is wrong. I would go as far as to say that you can find an LED that produces a color you prefer over incandescent.
- twoodfin 3y ago
  What’s your recommendation for a quality sub-2700K bulb?
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    I settled on an adjustable-temperature/brightness standing lamp. I don’t know the model, sorry. Being able to change the color/brightness on a spectrum is very nice. Planning to buy some e26 bulbs that connect to Apple’s home automation. It’ll be the same process of buying all the popular models on Amazon that have fully adjustable color/brightness and settling on what I like best.
- _yb2s 3y ago
  It just seems like a solution looking for a problem... incandescent lights are exactly the perfect solution for my use case, I am completely happy with them. The whole problem LED bulb mandates are trying to solve is mostly a problem of unnecessary and excessive lighting which is causing tons of light pollution, interrupting peoples circadian rhythm, etc. If people used a very dim light near their body just between sunset and sleep it wouldn't matter much how efficient it is. Brightly lighting up our cities and houses is totally unnecessary and terrible for us, and terrible for the planet regardless of how efficient and cheap we can make it. It lowers quality of life for us, and other animals affected by the light pollution. I would have no problem affording LED lights I don't want, but cannot afford to move someplace with enough land to escape the neighbors light pollution from their cheap LEDs... which makes it harder to sleep, impossible to enjoy the stars, etc.
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    Noises of crotchety old fart grumbling in the distance
  - santoshalper 3y ago
    No, the problem they are trying to solve is not light pollution, it is that incandescent bulbs use several times as much electricity as LEDs.
    - _yb2s 3y ago
      Making it more efficient just means people will think even less before brightly lighting things up all night long that either don’t need lighting at all or don’t need it so bright. LEDs are so efficient and cheap that the result is massive light pollution. The solution to energy waste is to make light dimmer and more localized.
      - thehappypm 3y ago
        That would be the case if LEDs weren’t so, so much more efficient. Like 5x more efficient, easily.
Schroedingersat 3y ago
Rough service incandescent bulbs are exempt and will last decades driven at a quarter power. Sure it's a special order, but it's a special case.

alfalfasprout 3y ago

They don't. Even the highest end ultra high CRI bulbs don't have the same CRI and dUV as a good halogen bulb for example.

comfypotato 3y ago
I’m more familiar with the advancements in CRI in recent years than dUV (this is the first I’be heard of that) but LEDs can now be purchased with equivalent CRI. The context of this discussion is incandescent color/perception/experience.
- alfalfasprout 3y ago
  My point is that CRI alone isn't sufficient. Nor is CCT (correlated color temperature). In practice, two bulbs with the same CRI and color temperature can have drastically different tints. It all boils down to how these measurements work. In practice, the vast vast majority of LED bulbs do not even remotely come close to the color reproduction of halogen. Not to mention the flicker response to 60hz wall power. There are a handful of companies that produce extremely color accurate LEDs but they're expensive and have limited lifespan. Check out this resource for more info: https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference-between-cri-and-ra/ https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference... https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie-1931-xy-coordinates https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie...
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    Well OK, I was more speaking in the context of a reading lamp. And I wanted more to point out that an LED lamp with smooth color and brightness spectrums allows for you to find a better sweet spot for comfortably reading at night.
  - navi0 3y ago
    I can’t recommend Waveform Lighting’s 95 CRI products highly enough! The wonderful warmth of incandescent (depending on your color temp prefs) with no wasted IR energy in the form of heat. What’s funny is that your mind will perceive it as hot because we’ve been conditioned to expect it from light at that color temp. Reasonable price, too, but more expensive than bulbs from the big box store. For something that lasts 10-18 years, it’s worth it to me.

BanazirGalbasi 3y ago

There was an article posted here earlier this year[1] that pointed out the flaws in modern LEDs, and just how hard it is to get one that matches the color you want. It's a pretty long read, but the author does a really good job of showing just how much trouble he has getting comfortable lighting that actually lasts a long time. [1] https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investigation.html https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investi...

comfypotato 3y ago
As I mentioned in some other comments, I settled on a lamp with a fully adjustable color and brightness. It’s lots of diodes, and the net effect is very nice. In other words, I’m agreeing with your article that the fixed bulbs typically don’t hit the mark.
- laverya 3y ago
  Are you sure that your "fully adjustable" bulb is giving you the spectrum you think it is? Syonyk's posted a few RGB bulb reviews recently, and they tend to have a lot more blue light than you'd think. And if you use the RGB functions, they tend to get REALLY spiky instead of having a smooth emissions curve. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review... + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bulb/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bul...
  - dmonitor 3y ago
    I’m lighting a room, not a science experiment
    - brookst 3y ago
      If you're not lighting a science experiment, you are the science experiment. (or something like that)

Obscurity4340 3y ago

I truly cannot distinguish between real incandescent light and the "warm white" implemented on the Phillips Hue bulbs.

Syonyk 3y ago
Visually, no, probably not. But in terms of your body's melatonin production and sleep, the Philips smart bulbs can get very peaky in terms of blue, in the range that matters. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ They're not obvious visually when they switch from the white emitter, which has "some blue" to the RGB emitters, which have "lots of blue" as you head out in the red/orange spectrum, but your body's "blue sensors" certainly notice. Unfortunately, our visual system isn't sensitive to the same things our melatonin inhibiting system is sensitive to, so without a spectrometer, you can't really tell what you're seeing.