6 ms·

This is why I resent the laws banning incandescent lights. I consider myself an environmentalist, and am very careful about wasting electricity. I love the warm

by _yb2s 3y ago

This is why I resent the laws banning incandescent lights. I consider myself an environmentalist, and am very careful about wasting electricity. I love the warm dim light from an incandescent and think it helps me fall asleep... the light from one incandescent dimmed to about 20-40W is all I need after sunset, and all I want. It's like sitting near a campfire. My house is solar powered, and I keep a window open without even heat even in the winter - my utility bills are negative from my solar array. Yet it is "normal" to create massive light pollution with hundreds of watts of LEDs, heating and lighting an entire house including unoccupied rooms, and nearly everybody has LED lights on the front porch and backyard that they leave on all night long. Pisses me off that lighting and electricity are so cheap that people have no regard for it, and yet my minuscule usage is nowadays categorically illegal /rant

comfypotato 3y ago
Just use an LED that produces the same color. They 100% exist. I agree that incandescent is better than cold LED. A little shopping and consumer research will 100% find you exactly the LED you want.
- _yb2s 3y ago
  It doesn't look or feel the same to me. Maybe something to do with CRI (I don't really understand that). I am not switching to LEDs... It would be wasteful to throw away something that works great and replace it with something new that doesn't work as well. I like incandescent, and my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W.
  - badcppdev 3y ago
    "This is why I resent the laws banning incandescent lights." and "my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W." You resent the laws although they barely affect you. And it's time for me to take a break from discussion threads.
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    > It doesn't look or feel the same to me. I used to be in this camp before branching out and trying some different LEDs. Unless it is literally the glowing filament that you like looking at, which is reasonable, you can definitely find a bulb that looks and feels the same. That was my point in repeating myself saying that it 100% exists. If you’re not in a place to financially experiment with a few bulbs that’s different. Stating that LEDs can’t produce the color you want is wrong. I would go as far as to say that you can find an LED that produces a color you prefer over incandescent.
    - twoodfin 3y ago
      What’s your recommendation for a quality sub-2700K bulb?
      - comfypotato 3y ago
        I settled on an adjustable-temperature/brightness standing lamp. I don’t know the model, sorry. Being able to change the color/brightness on a spectrum is very nice. Planning to buy some e26 bulbs that connect to Apple’s home automation. It’ll be the same process of buying all the popular models on Amazon that have fully adjustable color/brightness and settling on what I like best.
    - _yb2s 3y ago
      It just seems like a solution looking for a problem... incandescent lights are exactly the perfect solution for my use case, I am completely happy with them. The whole problem LED bulb mandates are trying to solve is mostly a problem of unnecessary and excessive lighting which is causing tons of light pollution, interrupting peoples circadian rhythm, etc. If people used a very dim light near their body just between sunset and sleep it wouldn't matter much how efficient it is. Brightly lighting up our cities and houses is totally unnecessary and terrible for us, and terrible for the planet regardless of how efficient and cheap we can make it. It lowers quality of life for us, and other animals affected by the light pollution. I would have no problem affording LED lights I don't want, but cannot afford to move someplace with enough land to escape the neighbors light pollution from their cheap LEDs... which makes it harder to sleep, impossible to enjoy the stars, etc.
  - Schroedingersat 3y ago
    Rough service incandescent bulbs are exempt and will last decades driven at a quarter power. Sure it's a special order, but it's a special case.
- alfalfasprout 3y ago
  They don't. Even the highest end ultra high CRI bulbs don't have the same CRI and dUV as a good halogen bulb for example.
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    I’m more familiar with the advancements in CRI in recent years than dUV (this is the first I’be heard of that) but LEDs can now be purchased with equivalent CRI. The context of this discussion is incandescent color/perception/experience.
    - alfalfasprout 3y ago
      My point is that CRI alone isn't sufficient. Nor is CCT (correlated color temperature). In practice, two bulbs with the same CRI and color temperature can have drastically different tints. It all boils down to how these measurements work. In practice, the vast vast majority of LED bulbs do not even remotely come close to the color reproduction of halogen. Not to mention the flicker response to 60hz wall power. There are a handful of companies that produce extremely color accurate LEDs but they're expensive and have limited lifespan. Check out this resource for more info: https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference-between-cri-and-ra/ https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference... https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie-1931-xy-coordinates https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie...
      - comfypotato 3y ago
        Well OK, I was more speaking in the context of a reading lamp. And I wanted more to point out that an LED lamp with smooth color and brightness spectrums allows for you to find a better sweet spot for comfortably reading at night.
      - navi0 3y ago
        I can’t recommend Waveform Lighting’s 95 CRI products highly enough! The wonderful warmth of incandescent (depending on your color temp prefs) with no wasted IR energy in the form of heat. What’s funny is that your mind will perceive it as hot because we’ve been conditioned to expect it from light at that color temp. Reasonable price, too, but more expensive than bulbs from the big box store. For something that lasts 10-18 years, it’s worth it to me.
- BanazirGalbasi 3y ago
  There was an article posted here earlier this year[1] that pointed out the flaws in modern LEDs, and just how hard it is to get one that matches the color you want. It's a pretty long read, but the author does a really good job of showing just how much trouble he has getting comfortable lighting that actually lasts a long time. [1] https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investigation.html https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investi...
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    As I mentioned in some other comments, I settled on a lamp with a fully adjustable color and brightness. It’s lots of diodes, and the net effect is very nice. In other words, I’m agreeing with your article that the fixed bulbs typically don’t hit the mark.
    - laverya 3y ago
      Are you sure that your "fully adjustable" bulb is giving you the spectrum you think it is? Syonyk's posted a few RGB bulb reviews recently, and they tend to have a lot more blue light than you'd think. And if you use the RGB functions, they tend to get REALLY spiky instead of having a smooth emissions curve. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review... + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bulb/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bul...
      - dmonitor 3y ago
        I’m lighting a room, not a science experiment
        brookst 3y ago
        If you're not lighting a science experiment, you are the science experiment. (or something like that)
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  I truly cannot distinguish between real incandescent light and the "warm white" implemented on the Phillips Hue bulbs.
  - Syonyk 3y ago
    Visually, no, probably not. But in terms of your body's melatonin production and sleep, the Philips smart bulbs can get very peaky in terms of blue, in the range that matters. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ They're not obvious visually when they switch from the white emitter, which has "some blue" to the RGB emitters, which have "lots of blue" as you head out in the red/orange spectrum, but your body's "blue sensors" certainly notice. Unfortunately, our visual system isn't sensitive to the same things our melatonin inhibiting system is sensitive to, so without a spectrometer, you can't really tell what you're seeing.
fencepost 3y ago
Sounds like you're looking for a color temperature even lower than 2700 which is usually the low end for standard bulbs. Two options that might work for you are 'smart' color changing bulbs that you can set to much warmer and dimmer values OR 'vintage' or amber glass bulbs, typically in a narrower bulb shape and sometimes with a smaller base (adapters are available).
dragonwriter 3y ago
> and yet my minuscule usage is nowadays categorically illegal /rant No, even when the efficiency rules go into effect, using noncompliant bulbs will not be illegal. Stock up on your inefficient bulbs before August, and you can use them as long as you like.
Dalewyn 3y ago
I resent the banning of incandescent light bulbs for a practical reason: Heat. In colder regions it's been common sense to use an incandescent light bulb to keep a space heated so it's just above freezing (above 0C or 32F) during the winter months. This is to prevent things like plumbing and sensitive machinery from breaking due to ice formation. A full blown heater is generally complete overkill and impractical for this. Unless someone has a drop-in replacement for incandescent light bulbs for heat generation purposes, I want them back. And no, LED light bulbs do not work: LEDs don't produce significant heat.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mhb 3y ago
  Simple Deluxe 150W Reptile Heat Lamp Bulb https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Deluxe-150W-Reptile-Heat/dp/B0BMKJDK3P https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Deluxe-150W-Reptile-Heat/dp/B0...
- koyote 3y ago
  This almost sounds like the popular xkcd around CPU overheating being a feature: https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/ Surely there are other, more reliable ways, to keep a space heated during winter months?
  - Syonyk 3y ago
    > Surely there are other, more reliable ways, to keep a space heated during winter months? Sure, there are plenty of other ways to keep a space heated. They're all radically more expensive, and radically more failure prone, than a 60W or 100W bulb burning constantly, back when the bulb was $2 and the trouble lamp cord was $10.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      And before anyone chimes in that "burning constantly" is a waste of electricity, most bulbs used for this purpose are behind a mechanism that opens and closes the circuit according to the ambient temperature so the bulb doesn't burn if it's warm enough.
jonwest 3y ago
While I appreciate your reluctance, I’d recommend trying to find one of the Philips LED bulbs that dim like an incandescent bulb. I’m not sure they’re easy to find now, and to be honest I don’t remember the model name, but if you can find them they are wonderful. Basically they have multiple sets of diodes within them that dim at different rates which is an incredibly convincing “incandescent emulation”. They are a “whiter” light at high brightness and a nice warm glow at low brightness with a nice smooth transition between them.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  Philips Warm Glow. They seem to be obsoleted, all I can find for them is new old stock anymore. Which I've bought up a bunch of, because the damned things keep failing on me. I've had a set of 5 in service for about 6 years, and so far I've had to replace 4 of them for various failures. They're facing down in a hanging lamp with glass globes around them, and I guess that's close enough to "recessed or enclosed" that they fry themselves. I have them in a few places, though I've also purchased... "some" incandescents, before they went out of availability. I should be good for the rest of my life at this point, especially since I run my incandescents dimmed. The wiki article on bulb rerating is informative - as you reduce power, lifespan is "fraction of rated power" to the -12 or -16 - it's some stupidly high exponent, and it's why a lot of people empirically noticed that "bulbs on dimmers never seem to burn out."
earthboundkid 3y ago
You can buy Edison bulbs at Home Depot. They are very popular.
mikewarot 3y ago
Don't they have "appliance" bulbs in your locale? These are incandescent lamps designed to work in ovens, a territory unlikely to ever be colonized by LED bulbs. Other than the slightly smaller wattage, they should fit your needs just fine. They work in normal sockets.
londons_explore 3y ago
If you run a 100w incandescent lamp dimmed to 30 watts, it's lifespan will be increased to easily 100 years. (Aging is highly nonlinear with temperature) So you will never have to deal with the inability to purchase a replacement.

by _yb2s 3y ago

comfypotato 3y ago

Just use an LED that produces the same color. They 100% exist. I agree that incandescent is better than cold LED. A little shopping and consumer research will 100% find you exactly the LED you want.

_yb2s 3y ago
It doesn't look or feel the same to me. Maybe something to do with CRI (I don't really understand that). I am not switching to LEDs... It would be wasteful to throw away something that works great and replace it with something new that doesn't work as well. I like incandescent, and my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W.
- badcppdev 3y ago
  "This is why I resent the laws banning incandescent lights." and "my 40 year old reading lamp and a few extra bulbs will last forever running a few hours a night dimmed to ~20W." You resent the laws although they barely affect you. And it's time for me to take a break from discussion threads.
- comfypotato 3y ago
  > It doesn't look or feel the same to me. I used to be in this camp before branching out and trying some different LEDs. Unless it is literally the glowing filament that you like looking at, which is reasonable, you can definitely find a bulb that looks and feels the same. That was my point in repeating myself saying that it 100% exists. If you’re not in a place to financially experiment with a few bulbs that’s different. Stating that LEDs can’t produce the color you want is wrong. I would go as far as to say that you can find an LED that produces a color you prefer over incandescent.
  - twoodfin 3y ago
    What’s your recommendation for a quality sub-2700K bulb?
    - comfypotato 3y ago
      I settled on an adjustable-temperature/brightness standing lamp. I don’t know the model, sorry. Being able to change the color/brightness on a spectrum is very nice. Planning to buy some e26 bulbs that connect to Apple’s home automation. It’ll be the same process of buying all the popular models on Amazon that have fully adjustable color/brightness and settling on what I like best.
  - _yb2s 3y ago
    It just seems like a solution looking for a problem... incandescent lights are exactly the perfect solution for my use case, I am completely happy with them. The whole problem LED bulb mandates are trying to solve is mostly a problem of unnecessary and excessive lighting which is causing tons of light pollution, interrupting peoples circadian rhythm, etc. If people used a very dim light near their body just between sunset and sleep it wouldn't matter much how efficient it is. Brightly lighting up our cities and houses is totally unnecessary and terrible for us, and terrible for the planet regardless of how efficient and cheap we can make it. It lowers quality of life for us, and other animals affected by the light pollution. I would have no problem affording LED lights I don't want, but cannot afford to move someplace with enough land to escape the neighbors light pollution from their cheap LEDs... which makes it harder to sleep, impossible to enjoy the stars, etc.
- Schroedingersat 3y ago
  Rough service incandescent bulbs are exempt and will last decades driven at a quarter power. Sure it's a special order, but it's a special case.
alfalfasprout 3y ago
They don't. Even the highest end ultra high CRI bulbs don't have the same CRI and dUV as a good halogen bulb for example.
- comfypotato 3y ago
  I’m more familiar with the advancements in CRI in recent years than dUV (this is the first I’be heard of that) but LEDs can now be purchased with equivalent CRI. The context of this discussion is incandescent color/perception/experience.
  - alfalfasprout 3y ago
    My point is that CRI alone isn't sufficient. Nor is CCT (correlated color temperature). In practice, two bulbs with the same CRI and color temperature can have drastically different tints. It all boils down to how these measurements work. In practice, the vast vast majority of LED bulbs do not even remotely come close to the color reproduction of halogen. Not to mention the flicker response to 60hz wall power. There are a handful of companies that produce extremely color accurate LEDs but they're expensive and have limited lifespan. Check out this resource for more info: https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference-between-cri-and-ra/ https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/what-is-the-difference... https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie-1931-xy-coordinates https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie...
    - comfypotato 3y ago
      Well OK, I was more speaking in the context of a reading lamp. And I wanted more to point out that an LED lamp with smooth color and brightness spectrums allows for you to find a better sweet spot for comfortably reading at night.
    - navi0 3y ago
      I can’t recommend Waveform Lighting’s 95 CRI products highly enough! The wonderful warmth of incandescent (depending on your color temp prefs) with no wasted IR energy in the form of heat. What’s funny is that your mind will perceive it as hot because we’ve been conditioned to expect it from light at that color temp. Reasonable price, too, but more expensive than bulbs from the big box store. For something that lasts 10-18 years, it’s worth it to me.
BanazirGalbasi 3y ago
There was an article posted here earlier this year[1] that pointed out the flaws in modern LEDs, and just how hard it is to get one that matches the color you want. It's a pretty long read, but the author does a really good job of showing just how much trouble he has getting comfortable lighting that actually lasts a long time. [1] https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investigation.html https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investi...
- comfypotato 3y ago
  As I mentioned in some other comments, I settled on a lamp with a fully adjustable color and brightness. It’s lots of diodes, and the net effect is very nice. In other words, I’m agreeing with your article that the fixed bulbs typically don’t hit the mark.
  - laverya 3y ago
    Are you sure that your "fully adjustable" bulb is giving you the spectrum you think it is? Syonyk's posted a few RGB bulb reviews recently, and they tend to have a lot more blue light than you'd think. And if you use the RGB functions, they tend to get REALLY spiky instead of having a smooth emissions curve. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/04/08/ecosmart-smart-bulb-review... + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ + https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bulb/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/02/26/feit-electric-wifi-rgb-bul...
    - dmonitor 3y ago
      I’m lighting a room, not a science experiment
      - brookst 3y ago
        If you're not lighting a science experiment, you are the science experiment. (or something like that)
Obscurity4340 3y ago
I truly cannot distinguish between real incandescent light and the "warm white" implemented on the Phillips Hue bulbs.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  Visually, no, probably not. But in terms of your body's melatonin production and sleep, the Philips smart bulbs can get very peaky in terms of blue, in the range that matters. https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ https://www.sevarg.net/2023/03/11/philips-smart-wifi-bulbs/ They're not obvious visually when they switch from the white emitter, which has "some blue" to the RGB emitters, which have "lots of blue" as you head out in the red/orange spectrum, but your body's "blue sensors" certainly notice. Unfortunately, our visual system isn't sensitive to the same things our melatonin inhibiting system is sensitive to, so without a spectrometer, you can't really tell what you're seeing.

fencepost 3y ago

Sounds like you're looking for a color temperature even lower than 2700 which is usually the low end for standard bulbs. Two options that might work for you are 'smart' color changing bulbs that you can set to much warmer and dimmer values OR 'vintage' or amber glass bulbs, typically in a narrower bulb shape and sometimes with a smaller base (adapters are available).

dragonwriter 3y ago

> and yet my minuscule usage is nowadays categorically illegal /rant No, even when the efficiency rules go into effect, using noncompliant bulbs will not be illegal. Stock up on your inefficient bulbs before August, and you can use them as long as you like.

Dalewyn 3y ago

I resent the banning of incandescent light bulbs for a practical reason: Heat. In colder regions it's been common sense to use an incandescent light bulb to keep a space heated so it's just above freezing (above 0C or 32F) during the winter months. This is to prevent things like plumbing and sensitive machinery from breaking due to ice formation. A full blown heater is generally complete overkill and impractical for this. Unless someone has a drop-in replacement for incandescent light bulbs for heat generation purposes, I want them back. And no, LED light bulbs do not work: LEDs don't produce significant heat.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mhb 3y ago
Simple Deluxe 150W Reptile Heat Lamp Bulb https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Deluxe-150W-Reptile-Heat/dp/B0BMKJDK3P https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Deluxe-150W-Reptile-Heat/dp/B0...
koyote 3y ago
This almost sounds like the popular xkcd around CPU overheating being a feature: https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/ Surely there are other, more reliable ways, to keep a space heated during winter months?
- Syonyk 3y ago
  > Surely there are other, more reliable ways, to keep a space heated during winter months? Sure, there are plenty of other ways to keep a space heated. They're all radically more expensive, and radically more failure prone, than a 60W or 100W bulb burning constantly, back when the bulb was $2 and the trouble lamp cord was $10.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    And before anyone chimes in that "burning constantly" is a waste of electricity, most bulbs used for this purpose are behind a mechanism that opens and closes the circuit according to the ambient temperature so the bulb doesn't burn if it's warm enough.

jonwest 3y ago

While I appreciate your reluctance, I’d recommend trying to find one of the Philips LED bulbs that dim like an incandescent bulb. I’m not sure they’re easy to find now, and to be honest I don’t remember the model name, but if you can find them they are wonderful. Basically they have multiple sets of diodes within them that dim at different rates which is an incredibly convincing “incandescent emulation”. They are a “whiter” light at high brightness and a nice warm glow at low brightness with a nice smooth transition between them.

Syonyk 3y ago
Philips Warm Glow. They seem to be obsoleted, all I can find for them is new old stock anymore. Which I've bought up a bunch of, because the damned things keep failing on me. I've had a set of 5 in service for about 6 years, and so far I've had to replace 4 of them for various failures. They're facing down in a hanging lamp with glass globes around them, and I guess that's close enough to "recessed or enclosed" that they fry themselves. I have them in a few places, though I've also purchased... "some" incandescents, before they went out of availability. I should be good for the rest of my life at this point, especially since I run my incandescents dimmed. The wiki article on bulb rerating is informative - as you reduce power, lifespan is "fraction of rated power" to the -12 or -16 - it's some stupidly high exponent, and it's why a lot of people empirically noticed that "bulbs on dimmers never seem to burn out."

earthboundkid 3y ago

You can buy Edison bulbs at Home Depot. They are very popular.

mikewarot 3y ago

Don't they have "appliance" bulbs in your locale? These are incandescent lamps designed to work in ovens, a territory unlikely to ever be colonized by LED bulbs. Other than the slightly smaller wattage, they should fit your needs just fine. They work in normal sockets.

londons_explore 3y ago

If you run a 100w incandescent lamp dimmed to 30 watts, it's lifespan will be increased to easily 100 years. (Aging is highly nonlinear with temperature) So you will never have to deal with the inability to purchase a replacement.